Episode Transcript
Speaker 1 00:00:14 What is going on everybody? Welcome back to the end of the Round podcast says I watch our good buddy Mitch Wallace. Try to deep throat an SM seven B over there, <laugh>. My name is Matt ll uh, today we've got a really cool episode, something very different. Um, files is like a hybrid episode. It's kind of like the, uh, industry series, but also, uh, our man is an artist and just put out a new single. Uh, it's our buddy Matt Wallace, aka a Nashville manager, aka Money Matt aka still Matthews. Just put out a new song called 12 Steps that y'all should check out Cause It Is Fucking Fire. And we talk about the music industry, we talk about acts that he used to work with in the country realm, such as Musk and I, bloodline, Riley Green, Luke Combs, Taylor, Ray Holbrook, just to name a few.
Speaker 1 00:00:56 And how he met the guy that he has been working the closest with over the last few years. Uh, a guy by the name of Jelly Roll. So really cool conversation where we talk aloud a little bit of everything, get his backstory and hope you guys enjoy it quickly. Gotta tell you about our sponsors, whale Tail Media, whales and his crew over there. They are the best in the business. You'll make sure to check them out. They do all of our graphics, a lot of our visual stuff. Um, and you can always find whales at the writer's rounds every other Tuesday night over there at Live o Get them up. Whale tail.com, whale-tail.com. Uh, Saxon Studios Grady and his boys got a really cool shout out in this one from, uh, from Matt Wallace. Uh, be sure you check them out. You're looking for a place to record.
Speaker 1 00:01:37 It's cool. So many new artists here in town come up to me and be like, dude, we're working with Grady. Dude. We're working with Grady. It's like, as you should be. Grady is the shit we like keeping him busy. Y'all be sure to hit them up. Axman Studios, our man, Mitch Wallace, who was just getting it on with a SM seven B over there. Uh, one of these guys, uh, you could look him up, uh, at Wallace Mitch on Instagram. Uh, Mitch is a content guru. He has been crushing the game. And, uh, if you need any help, TikTok, Instagram, social media, whether you're in music or just have a business out there, hit him up. You will help you. And last, but certainly not least, our friends in the green world, Trailside CBD Emporium, Delta eight. Delta eight. Delta eight. Shit gets you high. It is legal and you can save 20% with promo code. I itr. So let's get into the episode with Money. Matt, Matt Wass, how the fuck you doing
Speaker 2 00:02:21 Today? How the fuck you doing, bro? I think
Speaker 1 00:02:23 We're doing, I think we're doing both. Doing pretty good, man. I think we're both doing good. How many years you got, uh, you got sober now from Boo California sober? Like I am,
Speaker 2 00:02:30 Like, like from booze, like I still drink a little bit on occasion on the road. Yeah. More smoker, but like nine years sober from cocaine addiction, let's go. So like, that was really the trap in my life, you know? Yeah. Like I, I, I never really got too bad into pills. You know, we grew up in an environment where like pills tend to be a gateway drug, you know, but like for me it was cocaine. And in a weird way it's like the pharmaceutical industry and, and, and, and, and it self traps us, right? Like, so like from a young age I was a d d. Yeah. Right? So same, same. They start you on what? Adderall or Lin or
Speaker 1 00:03:03 I was conserved 54 milligrams. Yes. There
Speaker 2 00:03:06 You go. Like, so like, you kind of get tricked, I don't know what age you were when you started, but it was like I was addicted to stimulants before I even really knew what being addicted could have meant. Yeah. Or like what drugs really even like were, because you know, you're eight years old getting Adderall because Yeah. You're a little bit rambunctious or something. Yeah, a little
Speaker 1 00:03:24 Bit. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:03:25 Yeah. So whatever. So like, it was kind of like a trap and then, you know, like fast forward life and like all the shit that happened, I just, you know, fell into that path of daily, daily battling cocaine, you know? Oh yeah. And it, it, it was a bad drug for me because it was a drug I was functional on. Yeah. Like there's a lot of times where, you know, people are like, ah, well it's apparent, like with alcohol, it's more apparent when I'm, you know, drinking cuz like, you know, I'm big jolly fucking goofy ass chunk, you know, like, but like with cocaine you didn't know, you
Speaker 1 00:03:55 Know, so, so 12 steps you saw him, which fucking slaps by the way, bro. Yeah. Appreciate you. Big, big fan man. And happy to see it out there doing what it's doing. 12 steps. Is that more about your battle with the, with the snow than it is?
Speaker 2 00:04:07 Yeah, no, a hundred percent. You know, like, uh, me and Young Wickeds on verse two, uh, James Garcia now, I forget, he, he's kind of gone through the name change recently. But yeah, my boy James Garcia hopped on verse two. We were on the Jelly Roll tour together, um, both opening up and yeah, we just had a great time and I was like, yo man, I know he's battled through alcohol addiction. Yeah. And so now he's sober from alcohol for probably like a good, I think three or four years. So for him it was like a really cool thing to get on the song with me, you know, speaking about my problem. And then, you know, him having that relatability. So like, really it's for anybody that's ever been in a rehab situation or felt like they kept relapsing, you know, like sobriety is a tough thing when you, you know, start like so many times and you fail and you start and you fail and you start and you fail. And I think for so many people, there's never an end to that. Yeah. Like it's a constant battle their whole life. But you know, like you really can, if you figure out, you know, what it is that makes you work in life or what it is that you can channel your energy into, to, to where you don't have enough time for this anymore. I think that was where, you know, like I learned, hey, this is the person I want to be and cocaine prevents me from being that
Speaker 1 00:05:13 Person. That's how, that's how I felt with the booze man. I got, I got clean, it's coming up on, coming up on six years, so I was like 21. So, and again, being in college, but being in this town, like, and whether it's booze, whether it's Coke, whether it's Bills, they have it all here. Yeah, yeah. Like this and, and in this music game, in this music industry that, that nine years off the K man, that's huge. Yeah. Yeah. That's big. That's a big deal, man. Well
Speaker 2 00:05:36 It's, and it's crazy cuz like, you know, like we still live in a state where they alienate us sometimes for smoking weed, which is ridiculous. Yes. But
Speaker 1 00:05:42 Like,
Speaker 2 00:05:42 Agreed, you know, there's however many states that are medically legal now. I think it's over 30, I think over like two thirds of
Speaker 1 00:05:48 The And how many are recreationally legal? Like that's
Speaker 2 00:05:51 The time too. Yeah. It's like we're getting to a place where obviously clearly there's some benefit to this, there's some economic benefit to it. So the fact that you can go readily get access to opiates, I mean, we're exposed at a young age. You get your wisdom teeth taken out, they give you some kind of opiate to get over it. So from a young age, you're like, you're battling these things that you don't really even know you're up against sometimes, you know? Cause you're just doing what a doctor tells you to. Yeah. And then you're like, well shit, this is what makes me feel normal. I need this, I need this, I need this. Or you create dependency. And like, that's the trap that life is a hundred percent. I mean, whether it's fast food, whether it's what it is. Oh bro. Yeah. You know, like, and, and, and in some form or fashion, it's tough not to have dependency, you know?
Speaker 2 00:06:31 Yeah. Like, I mean, still to this day, I probably drink way too much coffee. You know, like I'm probably addicted in some form or fashion to damn, you know, like stimulants still and always will be because, you know, like of a trap that I fell into at a young age. So that was really the song, 12 Steps when we put that out together, you know, me and James Garcia, we were just like, damn, this is the song that I hope someone hears this and they feel the same way that we did. And it helps them get to where we are now. You
Speaker 1 00:06:57 Know, bro, I was, I was over here like, nodding like, yeah. Like yeah, I feel that, you know? Yeah. Yeah. And I'm somebody who hasn't been to a, been to a meeting in a long time. Like I've, I've been good about it because I got, well, I, I got cleaned up before I moved here. Yeah. So it would be a little bit of a different situation. But, um, but like, there were mo there were lines, there were lines in the verses and all that man that, that related. So I gotta talk to you about, so it's funny, like when somebody rings you up, like your, your name Matt Wallace. Yeah. Then you go money Matt, and then still Matthews. Like, you've got these, all these different things going at once. So I kind of wanna back up what brought you here to Nashville? Like, how'd you end up in this city and when did you get here?
Speaker 2 00:07:34 Yeah, so I was, I was 16 years old right. And, uh, living in Chattanooga, it was great, great place to grow up. Honestly. My mom and my dad got divorced, right. And then like four of my grandparents, no, three outta four. My grandparents died all in a year. Wow. My brother got arrested. Tough shit.
Speaker 1 00:07:52 Yeah. That's a, that's a, that's a tough, tough stretch.
Speaker 2 00:07:54 It was like, just like a real, you know, moment in my life for like a sophomore, you know, that felt like he had everything going for him. So I'm like 16 years old. I get my car, I've had my car like maybe a month, and for whatever reason I'm doing 95. And I jerk it left into the side of Signal Mountain where I grew up. Fuck did, was wearing no seatbelt, did three barrel rolls and like, woke up and was just in the back seat of the car and had like a cut on my, my head and like my finger was all jammed up, but like, crawled out of the car, you know, like jumped out of the thing, you know, like walked like half a mile down the road to the, to till I saw someone drive by, you know, like I was on kinda on the backside of the mountain in the middle of nowhere.
Speaker 2 00:08:40 And, uh, this dude fucking like, wouldn't even let me in his car, but he was like, yo, man, you gotta like, follow me to my house. It's right around the corner, dude, if you can walk just a little bit, like I'm, we're almost there, you know? I was like, all right, cool, whatever. So like, they threw me in an ambulance and, you know, like I tried to kill myself, dog. Like, there was no doubt about it in my mind, but it didn't work. And so, like, I think in that moment, you're 16 years old, you're like, fuck man. Nothing was working before that. Nothing was working after that. And like, it was just a, a downward spiral that year. Like I was always a smart kid. Like Yeah. I had a high iq. Like I knew it, like, you know, like I was a little bit of a, you know, pinball machine sometimes, but I knew I was a capable test taker. I was a capable whatever, so I didn't like drop out cuz school was tough. I just dropped out cuz life was tough. Yeah, right. And so, you know, like fast forward, I, I decided like, yo, my parents divorced, my dad moved to somewhere called Lebanon, Tennessee, which is like, what, 45 minutes home
Speaker 1 00:09:37 Of, home of cahoots and yeah, we've had some good times in Lebanon. That's a
Speaker 2 00:09:41 Good little spot home, home of haystack, you know, and like, you know, a few other things. But like, for all intents and purposes, and I say it cuz I spent a lot of my life there and my dad's from there. My grandparents owned the newspaper in the Lebanon until they sold it, the Lebanon Democrat. And, uh, it's white trash America, y'all. Yeah, man.
Speaker 1 00:10:00 It's, it's living, it's living in Tennessee, not in one of the big cities. Not in Memphis, uh, Jackson, Knoxville or Nashville.
Speaker 2 00:10:06 Yeah. Yeah. It's nothing like Nashville.
Speaker 1 00:10:08 Yeah. It's a different world. Yes. It's, it's outside the city limits. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:10:11 And living in Lebanon, like, I didn't really come to Nashville for probably the first three years I lived in Lebanon. You know, like there was really no reason for me too. You know, like, you know, I ended up, you know, I, after I dropped outta high school, you know, we'll, we'll fast forward to where this is going, but like, you know, like I ended up, you know, in a position to where I went to M T S U and I was in Murfreesboro, so I was really Rutherford County. Wilson County and you know, going back home to Chattanooga to see my old friends more than I was in Davidson County. So, you know, like, it was kind of a, kind of a crazy thing. So Lebanon is like white trash America though, right? And then the other converse, like side of Lebanon is what you have is like that there's still the projects there.
Speaker 2 00:10:54 Like, so Lebanon will never be Mount Juliet, it'll never be Franklin. Even though if you back up like when my dad, you know, and grandparents were there, like, it could have been Franklin. But the difference is like, I mean like, you look at a geography, you look at like, it's proximity to lakes and, and, and, and all these other features that like scene benefit, like the fact that it has a mass transit system through railroad like Lebanon really should have popped. But there's still the projects, it's still white trash America. It's still blue collar factories. It's still where royal canine dog food gets made. Yeah. It's still like, that's Lebanon
Speaker 1 00:11:29 Isn't the Ra isn't there a racetrack out there too? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:11:32 The super speedways out there. Yeah. So like, it's like, that's the culture, you know? Yeah. Like there's that dude that like, loves Luke Combs and then there's that dude that was like bumping G unit or bumping little white, you know, like, or bumping three six Mafia, you know, like Memphis rap. And it was like, it was just this eclectic kind of like mixing of white cr white, white trash and uh, like southern rap, hip hop culture.
Speaker 1 00:11:57 So how, so how did that, how did that, how did that rub off on you being there for three years? Cuz you go through that accident and you say you come up here, like, that's that second chance moment. Like you live in a
Speaker 2 00:12:06 Yeah. So you
Speaker 1 00:12:07 Brought your mind's different after something like that.
Speaker 2 00:12:09 Yeah, so it's different. So like, when I moved to Lebanon, like I'd always played in bands and shit. I was a rocker, you know, I played guitar, I played a a, a bass guitar. I sang backup vocals, you know, like I had a sick band in Chattanooga. We opened for, you know, like couple little local bands like, and it was cool. My brother was our manager. Like we had this thing. So I'd like, I'd kind of been doing the little thing cuz my brother was, you know, he turned 18 when I was 14, and I had that band when I was 14. It was called High Level Stress. It was this punk band I was in, right. And I played bass and sang backup vocals. My dude Spencer, who now was on Broadway of all things, it was like motherfucking was the most insane, like high like Blink 180 2 type singer ever.
Speaker 2 00:12:51 Oh shit. And then we had this, uh, this dude Shane Woods that played drums, man. And he's just like black drummer. So like, the feel in the pocket was sick. So for like, we were like this kid super punk band, right? And like Spencer had like the voice of an angel and then I could just like growl and yell and all that shit. So like, we did that and I just like fell in love with music. So like, when I left, you know, to move to Lebanon, you know, to chase a dream in music, like I really left the basis of what I knew, which was rock and punk and you know, like indie rock. And so I, I moved to Nashville or Lebanon rather. And, you know, my cousin was there. And so like, I had a recording rig. I'd recorded my band's first album and shit. Like, I built a computer in the seventh grade. And what
Speaker 1 00:13:37 And what years are these in? So you say
Speaker 2 00:13:38 Like, so in seven, so I'm 34, believe it or not. So 34 years old Mount Wallace. So seventh grade puts me like, what, like 16? I'm 2003. That would've been sophomore. So back off on 2, 3, 4, like 1998, I go to my dad like 11, 12 years old. And I'm like, yo dude, here's computer parts. And he's like, what the f wait, like my dad's a lieutenant colonel. He just like, did not understand why I was handing him computer parts. I was like, man, my birthday's coming up. Like if you bought me these, he was like, whoa, what are you gonna do with computer parts? I was like, I'm gonna build a computer. And he was like, what do you mean? I was like, dad, it's a puzzle. There's only like seven pieces, bro. It was like CPU u a hard drive. Especially back.
Speaker 1 00:14:18 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:14:19 You got the memory. He's like, how do you like, what's up? I was like, dad, I'm just different. Just, just take a shot. You know, like, and I was, for some reason in my life, I was always willing to convince a, a person to take a shot on me. Like whether it was a job interview or whether it was a coach putting me in. Yeah. Like, I just had something about it where I was like, all right, they'll at least gimme a chance. Right? So like, dad gave me a chance, I built this computer and then I recorded my punk band that summer and he was just like, you could tell he was just like, how does this happen? Like, so I had this like kind of basis I moved to Lebanon and it is not indie rock. It's not like, it's like motherfucking Tim McGraw in Southern rap. Young Buck, you know, like, so you're like, okay, I get it. Like it's a different culture. And my cousin like was like, yo bro, I'm a rapper. And I was like, all right, well I got this rig, you know, and he came over and he spit some shit. And I was like, alright. Right. That's cool. Yeah, you can definitely rap. Like that's really, you know, something, you know, like, I was like, where, how does the music get made? You know? Like I, I really never listened to rap in my life. Yeah. It was
Speaker 1 00:15:21 Something completely outta your comfort zone at that, that
Speaker 2 00:15:23 Time. Yeah. It was outta my comfort. I was like, I, I didn't understand the process of it cuz I was used to being in rock band. Like, we'd all sit in a room. Spencer would play guitar, I'd play guitar, he'd hum a melody, I'd hum a melody. We'd come up with something and then like, thank God he was autistic as fuck. And somehow our seventh grade band was able to like, sound great. I'm like, all right dude, here's the bass. I'll record you play this. Yeah. He played the drums. He played the bass, he played the guitar. Me and Shane watched him be the band. But it was cool cuz I got to learn how to be an engineer. Yeah. You know, cuz I was like, all right, well I don't have to be the talented person, I just have to capture the talent. Yeah. You know, so there was like that mindset in me. So when my cousin was like, I can rap, I was like, okay, yeah, he can rap, but how do I get him music? So it was already that thought in my mindset and like, this is 2003, I'm living in Lebanon. So like CDs are kind of on the way out, you know, like, I guess piracy was still a thing. Like
Speaker 1 00:16:16 Wire were still download wire. MySpace sat,
Speaker 2 00:16:18 We, we were still downloading on Kaza and Lime wire and that shit. Um, MySpace had just come out, like just come out
Speaker 1 00:16:25 And it was big in music. I don't know if it was especially underground music.
Speaker 2 00:16:28 Yeah. I don't know if it was 2002 or 2003, but that was, that was the shuck. Like I caught that and I was 16 years old. So me and my cousin would just do the, the thing that I thought was logical, which was I can make a record, let's make a record. I'll go to Staples, I'll buy a big old spun spindle of fucking, like whatever that shit is, blank disc with the stickers we'll put on them and we'll just like pull up at high schools when they're letting out. And $10 a cd. I had a gold, I had a gold Cadillac with two twelves in it. And I was like, I'm 16 years old, I'll fit in, I'll blend. I look like I'm supposed to be in a high school parking lot. Yeah. You know, like, whatever, we'll figure it out. So we go there the first day with like 200 CDs and I was like, all right, I'm gonna get 10 bucks a pop, Rocky. And he was like, uh, I don't know g And I was like, watch, watch. I got the skill. And he was like, what do you mean? I was like, I can sell things, man. Like, that's kind of my gift, whether it is digital, whether it's whatever I can kind of sell
Speaker 1 00:17:25 Or selling an idea like selling your dad, like, like shooting, saying, Hey doc, gimme the shot.
Speaker 2 00:17:29 I was like, it's in my blood. My granddad was a used car salesman on our other side of the family, Rocky. Like, I can sell, dude. It's just, I got it. You know what I mean? And a, a talent that, uh, fast forward like six months, Rocky would later abuse in the sense of, yeah, you can sell motherfucker. Here's a brick of cocaine. I'm gonna teach you how to do this too.
Speaker 1 00:17:47 So like, ooh, he's getting into the trap and all that. Start,
Speaker 2 00:17:49 Start, start of the trap. Right? So like insert hip hop and how hip hop's a real genre. And some people are actually not fakes. I e Rocky Cox man, loving to death, but still can't get outta the projects man. Uh, but so like fast forward, you know, like we're doing our thing, we're cutting the record, we're get a little buzz. I'm selling the CDs. I sell all 200 of 'em the first time we pop into a high school parking lot that's too red. I'm like, man, that's two bands. <laugh>. I was like, man, we got two bands, right? And he was like, yeah, dude, what are you gonna do with that? And I was like, I I I guess buy more music equipment. And he was like, man, that's not what I would've done. But yeah, I like where your head's at? He was like, alright, so how are we gonna afford all this shit you think you need? And I can't, you know? Cuz I was at that point where I was like, I need this microphone. I need, I was already the gear jumper.
Speaker 1 00:18:32 You knew what the good shit was.
Speaker 2 00:18:33 Yeah. Yeah. I was ready, I was ready for it. You know, like I'd been in studios. I was fortunate enough to wear the dude that, uh, taught me how to play guitar, how to sit home studio, cuz that's what he did for a living. Oh, cool, cool. And so like, I kind of got to see his setup and pick his brain and he was a good mentor for me. Still talk to him. Shout out Dean Deandre, man. Uh, hella good. Hell a good sax player. Hella good guitar player. So
Speaker 1 00:18:55 Yeah. I gotta ask you, how does, so you're doing the rap thing, you're getting in the trap, wanna hear more about all, all that stuff. But you eventually go into country music Yeah. And you're very involved in country music. Yeah. Whereas a lot of acts in the southeast are coming up. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:19:10 So, we'll, we'll get there the super quick way then. So get this little buzz, take it to MySpace, and then fast forward, there's this little event in Lebanon, Tennessee called Slamming and Jamming. Man. They run cars up and down the strip. And this local group, they were signed to a label in town called Street Flavor Records Man, which was where Haystack was. Sunny Paradise was the, the guy that was really running shit over there. And me and Sonny are, are super cool now. So shout out Sonny man for all you do. Uh, and like, you know, like, I guess my cousin is a mouthy motherfucking Irish dude that kind of runs in the family, you know? And, uh, him and Don Green got into an altercation and they shot, uh, Don Green, pulled out a 45 and shot one of my best friends on a square, Lebanon, oh geez.
Speaker 2 00:19:53 16 years old. So like it, that was the moment in time. I was like, all right man, I'm gonna get a G E D, I'm gonna figure it out. I, I basically like went to my dad and I was like, man, I could probably be living better than I am dad. I probably don't have a whole lot of direction and I don't know everything. And it was the first time where I probably admitted that to my dad because my whole life I had known everything even to him. He was like, well fuck man, that kid that just shows up with the idea and does it. And so I was like, yeah. So I think that was that moment where I was like, I'm gonna get a G E D and go to college. And I found out M t SSU had a recording industry management program. And if I could get a G E D and score high enough on the a c t, it was like a 20 or something I could get in, even though I was only like 17 years old.
Speaker 1 00:20:36 So you're gonna college young too? Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:20:38 Yeah. I was like,
Speaker 1 00:20:39 Because you're doing the GED ahead of time.
Speaker 2 00:20:41 Yeah. I mean I was going, what should have been like what like my junior year of uh Yeah. Of high school. I was like, oh fuck it, I'll get a
Speaker 1 00:20:48 Ged. Like, like you said, swing the back said like you said it wasn't, that school was tough. It was that life was tough.
Speaker 2 00:20:52 Yeah. Life was tough. And then I had had your ability. Yeah. Basically when I lost B-roll, life stopped. I was like, all right man, I gotta figure out a better way. Like, I'm still young enough to bounce back. I'm still young enough to recover. Yeah. Like this is real hip hop shit. This is real hood rat shit. Now the tough thing with that is that like you can never untrain a craft. So the trap of the drugs, the trap of being addicted to cocaine, the trap of, you know, that and the trap of long hours in the studio and feeling like I needed it to make school work to make the things work. Yeah. You know, like was a problem, you know? So then like, I guess I get to my senior year at MTSU and I'm like, man, I have learned nothing. I already knew how to run pro tools.
Speaker 2 00:21:30 I already knew how to run dolls. I already knew what all the gear was. I knew what compression was. I felt like the first every class I took was like a fucking joke. I was like, man, alright, wait a second. Why did I major in this? Yeah. And so my brother was like, man, I got an idea, dude. You've always wanted to run your own business. You're really great at math, you're really good at English. So you're, you're, you're able to probably do things that would be a great skillset for someone who's an accountant. And he was like, grandma was an accountant. And I was like, yeah man, that's true. And I never have to pay a cpa. And so I was already familiar with paying a CPA because when we sold those records, I wasn't the under the table kid. I was like, man, no.
Speaker 2 00:22:11 I wanna go be able to get a loan for a car. Yeah. So like, I was like Rocky, we sold, you know, like one year I reported on my schedule C like $50,000 of albums that I sold hand to hand out of the trunk of a fucking 1998 Cadillac Deville baby. Damn. Like I was proud of that at 16 years old. Yeah, dude. You know what I mean? So like for me, I was like, man, but I, I, I knew, hey, I paid Royce Belcher in Lebanon, Tennessee $500 that year to do my tax return. So I was like, man, well there's at least that. But I was like, man, I, I could have probably saved even more money on taxes had I kept better books. Yeah. Had I had kept a better record of my receipts and expenses and things like that. And so I think it had ingrained in me just by operating in business from such a young age that accounting was a language and a skillset that no matter what I did, was gonna be more valuable to me than probably anything else I could
Speaker 1 00:23:06 Learn. Yeah. And it's something that we've talked about with other music professionals. And again, you're, you're a a, a cool, like very different kind of case. Cause you do the artist thing as well and we're gonna get gonna get into that and, and we already did with the new song, whatever. I'm pretty stoned we're It's a good, yeah. Hell yeah. Man, I'm having a blast. Um, we, um, it's having, being able to do a ton, you know, like being able to be that multi-tool. So you're helping your buddy Sling records. You already know how like pro tools and that stuff works now you can be an accountant. Yeah. You can be, you can become money Matt, where you're so many artists and so many bands and so many people music forget about that side of things. Yeah. Like, you gotta keep good books, you gotta keep track of all this shit.
Speaker 2 00:23:46 Well, not even that, it's just like, I think about decision making way different than other people. Like anytime I have a conversation with a music business professional, I'm instantly reminded that I'm having a conversation with a music business professional. And you should scrap the word business from that. They're really just a music professional. Yeah. They don't know any fucking thing about business. I've yet to meet anybody in this town that hardly knows any fucking real thing about business. You know, whether they're an artist manager, whether they're a record label, they pretty disconnect. That's
Speaker 1 00:24:16 Why it gets outsourced. Yeah. And you
Speaker 2 00:24:17 Have your business, like if they were were in trucking, they would get eaten up if they were in software development, they would get eaten up. They wouldn't get that CEO position because they don't have the true skillset. Yeah. They have the skillset of relationships. And as we see that fold is why you're seeing record labels have no power anymore. Yeah. Why, you know, why, why you're seeing them struggle to stay relevant. Why you're seeing them struggle to find artists that have already built the following where they wouldn't even need a record label in the first place. Yeah. Because they've done the right things. Yeah. You know, like shout out to a band I worked with early in their career, Musk on Bloodline. Hey, that's who, who still doesn't have a fucking deal. Yeah. You know, like
Speaker 1 00:24:54 That's Yeah. They're, they're actually the ones that got me into the whole touring game. I was my first kid. Cause their merch guy. Exactly.
Speaker 2 00:24:59 Yeah. So it's like, man, shout out to those dudes for the years we put in together to where like, I think Gary hit me up last week and was like, yo, bro, I just wanna let you know Port Swing Angel went gold <laugh>. That's a record. We paid $500 for a video for that. Maybe they had $300 in the sound recording and you know, a little bit of money in marketing and it's a gold record. Yeah. But I can attest to you right now to this day that maybe there was less than $2,500 invested in Port Swing Angel from day one. So Yeah. I don't know man. Like is it really, is it really what it used to be? It's not. You know, and that's, and that's where I think that, you know, a lot of managers are old, they're young, they're, they're not able to adapt to newer technologies.
Speaker 2 00:25:44 They're not able to stay fresh with what really works. And I think that's the biggest problem is that everybody's always looking to take somebody else's playbook. Real champions write the fucking playbook dog. You know? Yeah. I don't care what anybody else's does. I don't care if the grass is greener over here. You know what? Because I trust in my own ability and I have self-confidence in what got me here. Yeah. So I don't need to worry about what this guy over here is doing. I don't need to worry about the score over here because the only thing that matters is the game I'm playing and nobody else is really playing that game. Yeah. So it's like, I think that's where people have got it all wrong. They're like, I saw this artist do this, I gotta do that. And I'm like, man, that's not No. The mindset,
Speaker 1 00:26:26 Put your fucking blinders on bro. And need to
Speaker 2 00:26:28 Do, need to figure out what you is and do that unapologetically to the death of you. And until they have to accept you, until you're so proven like nobody wanted me to be successful in this town, in the music business. Like everybody stacked the deck against me. Everybody wanted to put obstacles and barriers in my way. Was that
Speaker 1 00:26:49 Cuz you came in as an outsider from the rap game and all that?
Speaker 2 00:26:52 Yeah, just, I mean, I think that's it. I think it's, and it's also because I'm not afraid to speak my mind. It's your point and
Speaker 1 00:26:57 Tell people honesty. Like,
Speaker 2 00:26:58 Hey, like what's your experience? How, tell me about this marketing initiative where you really coming that from, like, how'd you really develop this plan? Here's why it's not gonna work. Tell me why you think that you can make it work when there's the 20 reasons why it's not gonna work.
Speaker 1 00:27:14 You asked questions. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:27:15 Well, I mean, I was an auditor for seven years. Yes. I ran a CPA firm. I was a partner at 27 with a tax partner. I was the audit partner. We had 24 employees in four offices and I let a band named Musket on Bloodline move in my basement. Yeah. There aren't 27 year old partners at C P A firms. Yeah. Like, that's not like a real thing. Like my client list was so insane to where I was like, but I've seen businesses work. And it was because I know, hey, most auditors, they go in there and they're tentative, most accountants are tentative to have conversations. I am not that human being. I can sit there with the CEO and I can ask him a question. Yeah. And I can pick his brain and I can talk about his revenue streams and I can talk about his operations and I can learn about his business and I can learn about what makes this business do this and why this business is gonna be here.
Speaker 1 00:28:03 Get get that understanding.
Speaker 2 00:28:04 Because it's important for me to understand my client because if I can add value to their business and I take a foremost, uh, uh, growth approach in the sense that every day I wake up and I want to grow myself. I want to grow my team, I wanna grow my company and I want to grow my clients. And I do that every day. Yeah. That's my mentality. That's a foremost growth
Speaker 1 00:28:27 Approach. That's the mission statement. That's what, that's what you're out here doing. I
Speaker 2 00:28:30 Think if everybody took that mentality, they would find that their business grows infinitely every year. Yeah. It's like, and it doesn't matter if you just like take that it, it it to heart. If you, if you, if you live it, if you breathe it. But like I'm telling you, if you do it, it's gonna work. Like, I mean there's two things that get you through in life. Passion and knowledge. And neither one of those anybody can ever take away from you. Yeah. So stack the deck in your favor. And I think that's every artist I've ever worked with, they, they wanna talk about barriers and then I'm like, oh, well no, that's not a barrier. I'll, I've got a hundred thousand dollars of video equipment, you want me to shoot your videos? I've got a quarter million dollar studio in my basement of my house. You need to record a record. Like what, what barriers do you have to create?
Speaker 1 00:29:19 Yeah. You want to, you wanna be that breaker. That's
Speaker 2 00:29:21 Every business is three things. It's operations, it's marketing and it's administration. Yeah. Tell me any business that's any different. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:29:29 They got, they, they, some, some might have more than that, but like just that's the three, that's the core. I mean if that's the basic part of a business,
Speaker 2 00:29:36 If you do that, you're good. You know, and like really the operations and the marketing is the most important thing. Cuz you can always hire someone to do admin. You don't even necessarily have to do that in-house. Right.
Speaker 1 00:29:46 Yeah. Yeah. So how does, how does the Muscadine thing start? And then you were that that whole kind of introduction, how does Matt Wallace translate into being involved with not only Musks on, there were some other acts at that time you were coming up with.
Speaker 2 00:29:58 Yeah, so I was, uh, I was at the firm and clearly always been passionate about music.
Speaker 1 00:30:07 Were you, were you like going to going to like whiskey jam and stuff? Like were you going to events here in town or were you just working the grind and living your life?
Speaker 2 00:30:13 I didn't get that because I was, I was at a firm that wasn't an entertainment based firm.
Speaker 1 00:30:18 Oh. So this is like business and residential, like private sector.
Speaker 2 00:30:22 Yeah. We were mostly serving software development companies, construction companies, food manufacturing companies, um, real estate investment trusts. People that were billionaires, not people that were, yeah, this is small business. The music business is small business. Like
Speaker 1 00:30:39 Yeah. You're dealing
Speaker 2 00:30:40 Some, some of my, some of my clients are, are are, were worth 1.3, 1.4, $1.5 billion.
Speaker 1 00:30:47 You ain you ain't working with small potatoes.
Speaker 2 00:30:48 Yeah. Yeah. I'm talking about like, uh, uh, one of my clients was a company called McKee Foods. Everybody in America knows who they are. They make oat oatmeal, cream pies, <laugh>. So they're in every gas station.
Speaker 1 00:30:58 Little Debbie's Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:30:59 Every gas station ever. Swiss cake rolls, nutty buddies. We've all been there, right? Oh
Speaker 1 00:31:04 Yeah. We've all been on the road and stoned and had snack.
Speaker 2 00:31:07 Yeah. I mean it is, it is just life. So it's like, once I came to the music business, there was like, I, I had this passion to be here. And so I started going to a few events. The Nashville Entrepreneur Center that I went to started a music business incubator. That's cool. And uh, I was like, man, I'm gonna go there and meet some people. So I met this artist manager, Ken Matson, um, great ass dude. Ended up at one rpm. I think I already recently left one rpm. I don't know where he is at now. So I'll have to call Ken after this and, and get the catch up. But he was managing a country rap band, uh, the Moonshot Bandits and Oh
Speaker 1 00:31:43 Yeah, I'm familiar.
Speaker 2 00:31:44 Had just left like average Joe's. He was the president of average Joe's management. And you know, we were at this thing and you know, so I was like, it was all these heavy hitters. I mean now. And they were becoming the guys then. So like I just sat there and, and I heard these guys talking and I was just like, wow. If I had a gun to my head and you had to ask me the question of who the smartest CEO O I'd ever heard speak was, these guys would be in the bottom tier all day long. Like, healthcare execs smoke, these dudes, like software development execs smoke. These dudes, my trucking execs smoke these dudes. <laugh>, shout out Craig and Greg Stanley, man company called Tennessee Steel Haulers family owned, started by a guy named Sid Stanley. They sold that thing I think for over half a billion dollars. So shout out to them for that. Wow. Insane. But like, that's a different level, you know, like Yeah. That's, it takes a different level. C e o. So I I, I instantly found in town, like these guys just aren't really, I, they're easy to beat in one area that's called business. So,
Speaker 1 00:32:59 Cause it's more the PR and the relationship based as opposed to the
Speaker 2 00:33:02 Revenue. I can't, I can't beat 'em on the relationships, but I can out business. 'em, they don't market well. The only thing they do well is radio and pr. So I was like, they don't market well, they don't touch fans. Well, they don't even in involve themselves in touring. That's all the managers and the agents. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:33:18 They have different sectors for everything. There's not one guy doing it all.
Speaker 2 00:33:21 Yeah. So it's like, I was like, this is just such a cluster, it inspired me to like really want to take a band and do something with them. And so I started looking for acts and I signed a couple and signed a couple more and started doing business management, just like the accounting thing, you know, because I was like, all right, cool. I can stay at the firm. I've got a comfortable living, I've got a comfortable lifestyle. I'm 27 years old making half, uh, you know, half a million dollars a year.
Speaker 1 00:33:50 Yeah. On that, on that accounting grind. Like you're grinding. You're not just
Speaker 2 00:33:54 Sitting your Yeah, I'm working, I'm working 3,500 hours a year. Yeah. So it was like 90 hours a work week every week. I mean, you can even ask Gary Stanton, like when they first moved in with me, you know, like I was still running the firm and these dudes did not see me during busy season. Yeah. You know, like I'd come home at 10, I'd leave 7:00 AM you know what I mean? Yeah. So they're out like, I think at that time we're even still touring as Gary and Charlie. Yeah. They weren't even musket on yet. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So it, it was just a, it was a different world. So like we finally ended up in a place, you know, like where I was like, okay, yeah, I'm really passionate. I signed this kid, Luke Combs that nobody had heard of signed this kid, Riley Green that nobody had heard of, signed this kid, Taylor Ray Holbrook that nobody had heard of.
Speaker 2 00:34:40 Yeah. Signed this kid up church that nobody had heard of, signed these dudes Muscat on Bloodline that nobody had heard of. And fast forward a year, I found out I had the picker and not only I had the picker, I must have had good advice. You know, like, so that's where at least I knew hey, you know, like it was cool cuz I got to see a guy become a manager that had never been a manager before Chris Kappy. So Chris or Cappy, you know, comes into my office and I was like, bro, I got this office on Donaldson Pike, I'm, you know, my CPA firm, there's four offices in a conference room. And he was like, yeah man, I'm gonna manage Luke. And I was like, sick. And you know, we had talked on the phone, I'd never really met him, you know, in person or whatever. Um, but he was like, yeah. And Luke says, you know, he thinks he wants you to be the business manager. You know, you were the first person to show any interest in him. You know, like, so he, he wants you to give it a shot. So I was like, hell yeah. So dope dude. Like how can I help? You
Speaker 1 00:35:45 Know, like yeah, what do you, what do you need? Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:35:46 Yeah. What do you need? And he was like, I don't know man, I gotta find, I gotta figure out where I'm gonna work. And I was like, well dude, I 1400 square foot office here, Donaldson. It's just me. You know? Like
Speaker 1 00:35:55 Come on in,
Speaker 2 00:35:56 Come on dude. Yeah. And he is like, really? I was like, yeah man, just set up over there. And I was like, man, if anybody wants to do writes or anything too, this conference room right here they can write in. So like had to listen to beautiful crazy get ridden, you know, like Yeah. Super tough. You know, like, uh, yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:36:12 So, and these are what years? This is what like 20 14, 20 13? 2015 or maybe even 16.
Speaker 2 00:36:20 When did Hurricane drop?
Speaker 1 00:36:21 Hurricane dropped in I believe 20. I believe it like had this moment in 2017.
Speaker 2 00:36:26 It was, it was right after hurricane dropped. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:36:29 Hurricane did it
Speaker 2 00:36:29 Wa Hurricane hadn't popped yet. It was nowhere near,
Speaker 1 00:36:32 This is 20,
Speaker 2 00:36:34 It might been 2015 or 2016 Sounds right. Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:36:37 Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:36:37 Yeah,
Speaker 1 00:36:37 Yeah, yeah. Which is coming, which is about seven years ago now. 78
Speaker 2 00:36:40 Years ago. Yeah. Cause Musca on dropped Port Swing Angel 2016. April, 2016. And I was managing them then. So this would've been 2015, fall of 2015. Wow. I wanna say, I think Luke dropped hurricane June, 2015 maybe. And then he dropped that ep. Yep. In, in, in, in, uh, around Thanksgiving time. Like where
Speaker 1 00:36:59 You have, where do you have
Speaker 2 00:37:00 Outlaws? Uh, this one's for you? Yep. It was that, this one's for you ep. Oh yeah, he dropped that had all six of those, those ones that the earlier eps he dropped when he was in college. Yeah. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. So that, that that new ep that was this one's for you, it had
Speaker 1 00:37:15 Was Cherry, if you want to,
Speaker 2 00:37:17 Memories are made of No, uh, out, out, out there.
Speaker 1 00:37:22 Uh, that was, that Saw
Speaker 2 00:37:23 H Slam was on there, this one's for you was on there. And there was one other record on there. And uh, I just remember being back in, uh, Jones Gap, Virginia, a little small place called Dot Virginia with Taylor, Ray Holbrook and playing the cover off of it that Thanksgiving break cuz I was helping Taylor launch his Patreon page. Oh shit. Uh, so I, we were back there at, at the Thing. So Taylor was the first artist that wanted me to manage him. So, uh, kind of fast forward to that next year, um, I I start kind of helping Taylor Ray Holbrook and, you know, Musk on Bloodline was just becoming a band. They came to me and they were like, yo man, we're we're, we're gonna do the, the, the duo thing. And I was like, hell yeah. Hell yeah. Oh, that's sick. Um, and they were like, yeah, we're thinking about calling ourselves Cherokee therapy. And I was like, what the fuck?
Speaker 1 00:38:14 <laugh>, I've heard of that name before
Speaker 2 00:38:17 Too. I said, you did what?
Speaker 1 00:38:18 I've heard this story. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:38:19 I said, nah, gee, I don't think that's it, Gary, respectfully, neither one of you Native American. You know what I mean? Like
Speaker 1 00:38:25 <laugh>.
Speaker 2 00:38:26 He was like, eh, that ain't it. Let's go back to the drawing board. Well, I was like, I like where he heads at. And he was like, I really want the, like, the rhyme thing. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, cool. Well like work on that. Yeah. Yeah. And then I think like a week later maybe he came back with the musket on Bloodline thing and I was like, man, I don't see a reason to hate it. You know, like, yeah. It was like really tough for me to like to to, to not love it. So I was like, all right, cool. Sick. So then, you know, like, that was probably December, 2015 and then we dropped Southern Boy Cure, uh, January
Speaker 1 00:38:58 At Harmonica. Yeah,
Speaker 2 00:38:59 Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, uh, and they'd cut all these songs in October. Uh, that's when Charlie had moved in and Gary had moved into the house in June. So it was like six months after they'd living been living with me, they started dropping. And uh, you know, we went and shot that video for Port Swing Angel and uh, we dropped that and the song did decent, but then it just kind of kept climbing. It kind of kept climbing. Taylor Ray was living with us too. So Taylor Ray shouted it out. Not I, I saw the, I saw the effects of Taylor Ray. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:39:30 The fuck. Yeah. You saw, like, everybody talks about this TikTok thing. You saw the Vine thing in country music. Yeah. You were there for the Vine
Speaker 2 00:39:36 Days for the Vine thing. And all the meanwhile reminding you, I I didn't listen to country music still. I only listened to the bands I worked with. Yeah. I still you couldn't told you
Speaker 1 00:39:50 You were rocking hip hop
Speaker 2 00:39:51 Bro. If I had have showed up in a country meeting and that had have been like, Hey, so tell us what you think about Tim McGraw. I'd had to like Google any song he ever did except, except for the one with Nelly. I could've sang you over and over again. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 00:40:04 Just respectfully. But that
Speaker 2 00:40:05 Hit my culture. I don't know.
Speaker 1 00:40:06 Yeah. Just respectfully that your culture, they your thing. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:40:09 Yeah. It wasn't my thing, but like, I just remember the first time I heard Luke Combs like, oh man, that voice, wow.
Speaker 1 00:40:16 Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:40:16 This is special. Like, that's what special is. This guy makes me wanna like country music and I don't, so I knew there was something there. So with Gary and Charlie, when I heard their harmonies, I've been recording people my whole life, it would've been a dream for me to have them in my studio. Like, yeah, wow, y'all can just like do that on the radio. You just hold like a guitar, Gary and play any song. And Charlie you can just, y'all can sing it together and it's like perfect. Yeah. I should just hold the camera and put that on the internet. Right? Like yeah. And so we did and I think that's how that band grew so much in, in, in, in the early on. It was like YouTube
Speaker 1 00:40:48 Was a big thing.
Speaker 2 00:40:49 Was so easy for them to put out content every, every week On Mondays must On Mondays. Monday, yeah dude. For probably two and a half years while they lived in my house. I mean, I think y'all probably know exactly what my house looks like. Cuz if you just go look at Musk on Mondays for the first two and a half years, it's in a different room in my house every week. You know, like them blue walls, you know, the little driveway. Yeah. That's all me y'all. You know, so like if you see it, that's the thing. So like, I think like after two and a half years of them just staying in people's faces, like people just loved tearing sing. So it was like no matter that Port Swing angel just kept growing and kept growing, kept,
Speaker 1 00:41:24 Was
Speaker 2 00:41:24 Kept growing. And was that
Speaker 1 00:41:25 That road grind that they have Yeah. Been on for,
Speaker 2 00:41:28 They were in a fortunate situation where
Speaker 1 00:41:30 Like up and down Alabama up and down 65 baby,
Speaker 2 00:41:34 They were hustlers and they were willing to take no money and they were willing to do it duo acoustic and open in front of anybody. Yeah. So, you know, they, it was a great position because obviously I had Kie in my office at the time, so getting Luke Combs dates wasn't the hardest thing. Yeah. Uh, Riley Green didn't have a manager. I was his business manager. His agent was also in one of the offices in my office. So getting Riley Green open in spots wasn't a tough thing. I was Bradley Jordan's tax guy. Yeah. So that was kind of in my hip pocket. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it was like, it was just like an easy thing to where I was like, oh, I can just kind of out business these people by like, I know what a band needs, I know what every business needs and you
Speaker 1 00:42:16 Have the connections and everybody, all you got, everybody
Speaker 2 00:42:18 Grows, every business needs operations. Yep. Marketing and administration. And in the music industry there's three kinds of operations. There's publishing, there's recording, and there's touring. That's all. This game is simple.
Speaker 1 00:42:30 And you had all that in the office at the same time.
Speaker 2 00:42:33 Yeah. So it's like, all right, let's rock. You know, like, so I think watching them build and watching the collaborative stuff that me and Bradley Jordan put together and watching some of the things, you know, that we put together kind of made me dig country music in a different way. Cuz I was like, okay, this isn't a cult. And admittedly I was lucky cuz I was super familiar with the culture growing up in Lebanon and spending all that time in Lebanon, like it's country music and then it's like white trash rap. Yeah. You know, like, so it was the other thing, like one of my best friends Will Warren, we hated the same music that the other listened to, but that's my, that's my guy. Like we still both love throwing on waders and walking down Barton's Creek and catching fucking red Ikua bass. You know, like, didn't matter that I like punk rock, I still grew up in Tennessee, you know, like with a fishing boat and shit.
Speaker 2 00:43:23 You know like, so like it was just like one of those things where it's like I knew how will thought, I knew how Michael thought, I knew how Tyler thought. So when I got to work with country artists, I was like, oh man, man this is easy. Where you're like every girl in every guy in Lebanon, I just gotta think man. Cuz there's only two types of music they listen to. They listen to Lil White and they listen to Tim McGraw and they listen to that shit. And I was like, all right, this is an easy game. So like I felt like if you, if you reverse engineer business and you start with the consumer that you want to reach, you start with your target demographic and you work your way backwards, it seems pretty easy. Yeah. Well hip hop and country both have a super similar thing in their target demographic. It's called low income. And what's what's popping for low income people, it's called YouTube. Why? Cuz it don't cost shit. So if you're not fucking visually representing yourself on the internet as an artist in the country or the hip hop space, you're doing yourself a disservice because if you add up all the listeners on Pandora, all the listeners on Apple Music, all the active listeners on Spotify, you're at 43% of the active users on YouTube.
Speaker 1 00:44:44 Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:44:46 And I don't know many country artists in in this town that have more than four music videos and people were like, man, why does Jelly roll work? Well, we put out 10 music videos every fucking 12 song album.
Speaker 1 00:45:00 Yeah. Muscadine guys are big video based as well.
Speaker 2 00:45:03 Why do you think that was?
Speaker 1 00:45:04 Yeah. Again, it's bringing that it's bringing that culture over to that, that that hustler's mentality overdo it.
Speaker 2 00:45:10 Well, marketing is impressions. You gotta find a way to show up in people's faces. Yeah. And if you're not on radio, because you don't have a label, the one place you can compete is the video world.
Speaker 1 00:45:20 And, and I think that's why Vine and TikTok have been so huge in country Musicly and hip hop as well. I mean, it's
Speaker 2 00:45:25 Free, like mean I don't have to pay anything to go on and watch a country music artist on vi on TikTok right now. Yeah. I don't have to pay anything to consume on TikTok right now.
Speaker 1 00:45:32 Yeah. It's your a and r You're seeing somebody and, and the distinct
Speaker 2 00:45:35 Thrown at you. And even the poor people have these, like even low income has this
Speaker 1 00:45:38 Or, or the, or the, or the tablet with the, with the wifi. Like
Speaker 2 00:45:42 The barrier to entry to this is no longer what it
Speaker 1 00:45:45 Used to be. It's not an income based thing.
Speaker 2 00:45:46 Yeah. This is not a representation of a lifestyle move. You know, like when you used to have a cell phone, like when I had my cell phone at 16 years old, it was a, it was a move like in Lebanon, Tennessee at 16 years old, people didn't, just, didn't have cell phones. Who's he? It's like, well, yeah, I got a reason to have a cell phone. I got plays to make yo, you know what
Speaker 1 00:46:06 I'm saying?
Speaker 2 00:46:06 Yeah. So it was like, you know, that was the thing. But you know, like it was like, that was the thing. So it's like, I think that we've just, like, we sometimes forget that and, and I was easy to just like, I don't know, it's a high IQ man. At the end of the day, I have 168 iq. It's been tested four or five times. I tell everybody the lowest number it tested at. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's like self-confidence and self-awareness is one of my gifts. It's like, well man, I, I haven't met too many people that have a high I v I accused me. So it's like I should probably just trust my gut cuz my intuition is pretty good if I've really thought it through and I've logically like participated in it, but it's like why I can grab a camera and I could shoot a music video and then edit it and color grade it. I,
Speaker 1 00:46:46 It's be that multi-tool. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:46:48 Grab a band and do this is because I can learn things faster. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:46:52 You know? So, so I gotta ask, um, so you do work, like you've done a lot of work in country music and all that. Yeah. How do, how do you get linked up with Jelly? What's that? What's that story? Because that goes back into your, your other, that goes back into what you know. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:47:06 So this is funny. So like, obviously my, my passion was in hip hop and I think me and Gary even, we joked about it cuz like, I listened to Yellow Wolf. I listened to like Machine Gun Kelly. I listened like that was what I enjoyed was like white rappers. And Gary does too. Like, I, I don't know if y'all seen him rapping on his Instagram. Yes. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:47:23 But clearly I, I've been in the sprinter many, many a times on the road and he's bumping clearly some little, some little boozy badass. Yeah.
Speaker 2 00:47:29 Clearly it, it was something me and Gary super shared in common that probably not as much as Charlie. So, you know, like we would always be showing each other different rap shit and like Yeah. Honestly it was super refreshing for me to have a friend like that. Yeah. But so fast forward, I'm, I'm, I'm doing all these things. I'm making all these moves and you know, I've known Jelly my whole life because like I told you, uh, or I've known of him since I was, since I moved to Lebanon because there wasn't a whole lot of people doing hip hop. And he, he was, had a very close relationship with Sonny Paradise, who ran Street Flavor Records and was best friends with the dude that murdered my best friend when I was 16 years old. Oh.
Speaker 1 00:48:04 No shit.
Speaker 2 00:48:05 So I knew there was like six or seven people that were like one degree of separation between me and Jelly. And I wanted to work with this man. He dropped a record called 27 in 2017 called Addiction Kills. And I was like, man, admittedly didn't love a lot of what Jelly did except a few songs here and there before Addiction Kills. There was like, he, he had dropped these mix tapes called Therapeutic Music and there was a few songs on those where I was like, yeah, I like this jelly. I don't like, like Gangster Rap Jelly or like wannabe Memphis Rap Jelly or Molly Body Graham Jelly to
Speaker 1 00:48:47 You. It's the most authentic Jelly is this Jelly. It's
Speaker 2 00:48:49 Believable. So I mean, addiction Kills, if you listen to that record front to back, he talks about, you know, raising his daughter because the baby mama's in jail because she's a heroin addict. And you look at Jelly and you're like, man, if you've got custody of the kid, then what's the mama gotta be like, you know what I mean? Yeah. And they're like, this is this man's life. He's really talking about how addiction affects a family Yeah. And how mental health is a real thing that you're going through and how he copes with his problems by drinking and smoking. And like, he's really saying the things that if anybody says he's a country rapper, I ask you what makes it country rap. There's nothing country about Jelly Roll ever. Like the fact that he's from Nashville. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:49:33 The accent like that like,
Speaker 2 00:49:35 Like I'm, I'm not sure like he's Southern rap maybe. Sure. Like just like three six Mafia. Yeah. Like would you call them country rap?
Speaker 1 00:49:42 Just like anything out of Atlanta, NOLA, any of those areas.
Speaker 2 00:49:46 But you could call it like therapeutic music. You could call it therapeutic rap. Yeah. You could call it addiction rap or mental health rap. He's
Speaker 1 00:49:53 Talking about, he's talking about real
Speaker 2 00:49:54 Shit. So we Southern nf, it's so far removed to me from Colt Ford and from the lax.
Speaker 1 00:50:02 Yeah. And I, and I, and I like what those guys do too. But it's such a different genres.
Speaker 2 00:50:05 It's, it's a different genre and different thing. I think a lot of people just, they wrote off Jelly because they thought he was that and they didn't really see what was in the core of the man. And I'll tell you this, like I sat down with him after I begged Ward from Whiskey Jam. I begged fucking an attorney we both knew in town that was representing him at the time. I begged couple show promoters. I knew Lane Flournoy down at Zydeco.
Speaker 1 00:50:34 We know Lane. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2 00:50:35 Yeah, yeah. I begged a few people. I was like, man, I really want to be in Jelly Space. And I think after probably like the seventh person who is the least suspecting person to be like, Hey man, you really need to meet this motherfucker. Jelly was like, man, I don't know how you even know him, but the fact that you know, this guy, this guy, this guy, this guy, and then this somehow this uh, steel kind of currently Coke dealer slash like thug ass, you know, fucking weed dealer. Like, ah, maybe I should take the meeting. So I hit him on the IG and I was like, boom, dude. Like I've been hitting a bunch of people trying to get with you. And he's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Re told me about you and, uh, ward and a few other people, man. Uh, I'm currently working on this record, uh, Wayland Willie, I'm down at the House of Blues, looks like go grab sushi one day.
Speaker 2 00:51:33 So I'm sitting there kind of picking his brain, Jelly's got a manager out in la I'm kind of like getting out of the business management thing. I just stopped business managing Luke. I just stopped business managing, uh, Riley. I was focused on just managing Muskett on at the time. Yeah. And, uh, had just started working with Jordan Fletcher. Um, so Jelly had come to me and we, we were sitting there eating and I kind of like told him my story and like picked his brain and was like, man, so you're really here on blood, sweat and tears in the sense of that you haven't done a whole lot of digital marketing. You ain't done a whole lot of like any anyway. He's like, man, proudly. I ain't never spent no money on ass. And I was like, all right, respect. I like that. You know, because I was like, I think there's a fucking millions of people that need to hear what you're fucking talking about. Yeah. Like meth, cocaine, addiction, being
Speaker 1 00:52:28 A, being a da being a dad with a, with the baby mama in jail. Like
Speaker 2 00:52:32 Yeah. Like you like jelly stories so insane. That man rat tap, tap tap D Ford baby girl. That's how he found out his daughter was born in jail, you know what I mean? And that's, that's the moment in his life that he knew he had to come outta jail and do something special to make a future for, for Bailey and for his family. And I think that that man's music and that powerful message is, is like honestly why I'm wanna work, you know, like go to work every day. And so like shout out Jelly Roll for being the only inspiration and the only reason I even put out music myself, you know, like if it weren't for his story and his encouragement and his big brother mentality. I mean, the dude took me out on tour of all the motherfuckers he could have taken out on tour. He is like, nah, I I want you to open up my manager. Like, I'm like,
Speaker 2 00:53:26 I didn't really know what to do at first. You know, like I was like, man, I ain't been on a station since I was like 16. Gee, I'm a behind the scenes guy now. You know, like, but you know, so, and, and the funny thing is, is fast forward I do my first show on the Jelly Roll tour and Anderson, South Carolina at Wendell's Dipp and Branch sold out. God, 4,000 people love that in front of my best friend Bradley Jordan as the promoter <laugh> bro. Yeah. And I tell you, when I get off the stage, Bradley Jordan's face insane, bro. There's never been a more proud man in his life than the fact that Matt Wallace just got off the stage and killed it in front of 4,000 Jelly fans. Bradley Jordan was like about to cry. That's awesome. It was like sick. So it was like, man, there's, those are opportunities I never dreamed I would have. I I gave up that dream a long time ago and figured I'd be a businessman and figured I'd be, you know, a creative and then, you know, like Jelly brought me back into songwriting. Jelly brought me into help him produce
Speaker 1 00:54:24 Records. Yeah. So, so one of our probably closest friends, I mean obviously we got, we got Mitch Mitch over here Yeah. Who's been doing some great work and stuff. Yeah. The, the future mayor of Nashville,
Speaker 2 00:54:34 Mr. Nelson.
Speaker 1 00:54:35 Mr. Nelson, what we sometimes call him Randy, we sometimes call him Ronnie cuz he's come out and done a lot of Trey Lewis dates with us. Yeah. And Ryan is, and a lot of people don't know this show up drunk. Yeah. Songwriter Matt Wallace. Yeah. That's, that's one of your songs.
Speaker 2 00:54:50 Yeah. Yeah. Me and Ryan Man pin that thing in the fucking, uh, in, in, in my little, uh, blue room where Musket on Bloodline did the Mu Musk and on Mondays y'all, and the funniest thing about Show Up drunk is like, I'm sitting there, I hit the dab rig right. Fucking faded faded. Me and Ron are both just like looking at each other super stoned. All of a sudden there's a red wasp on the dab rig right there. Me and Ryan are like both like so high in the middle of our show up drunk. Right. I'm like, what are we gonna do? I just grabbed the torch and fucking in center. Right. The red was right there. This shit. Oh, you can imagine Nelson's laughter, bro. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:55:32 Yeah. It was insane. So, so you work, you work with him. I mean, he's a long time buddy. So how'd you, how'd you first meet him and how's it progressed to what it is now? Cause y'all very, y'all are like brothers but also business bros. Like y'all are in this game together.
Speaker 2 00:55:45 So one of my, uh, other best friends and one of my, my, my, uh, favorite dudes to write song with songs with Sam, Sam Crabtree is actually who introduced me to Ryan. We went out to catch a, a writer's round and I'd met Job Fortner a few times, quite a few times. Super familiar with Job, but it was at the listening room and it was like Ryan Nelson job and Jordan Fletcher. And that was like, that was the day I met Ryan and Jordan. And then, you know, I was talking to 'em and then, you know, they were thinking about maybe doing a duo and then they both ended up doing the single thing. And then, you know, I ended up managing Jordan for a little bit and uh, he got that publishing deal. And then, you know, I kind of just like took a step back from country music cuz the Jelly Roll thing went from like zero to a hundred and then it went from like a hundred to a thousand. And so I was like, well thank God I did take that step back.
Speaker 1 00:56:38 Did y'all got a song on the fucking radio right now on Rock Radio? Like, it's crazy.
Speaker 2 00:56:42 Yeah. I mean, I mean, I want, I don't want, you know, brag for my bro, but my dude doesn't have a song on rock radio. Just, he has a song on alternative radio. He has a song on, on country radio's.
Speaker 1 00:56:52 See I listen to rock radio. So that's where I'm here.
Speaker 2 00:56:54 He's on three formats right now.
Speaker 1 00:56:55 Which Isard
Speaker 2 00:56:55 Of don't, I don't know, another artist in the world on three formats. Yeah. He's unheard of. I mean, maybe somebody does. And I just wanna remind you that he's independent and by the end of the year we'll have eight gold records independently. Crazy. Something special about that. I don't know if you need a label, do they really know what they're doing? Yeah. Crickets. Probably not. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:57:17 Um, so what's, uh, so talk about you and Randy Nelson. So you meet him at the list room. Is this this long Hair surfer boy ramp? Like Oh yeah. This is long Hair Hippie Florida boy Ryan, Florida. Oh, he was a boy. He wasn't even Florida Mangan. He was Florida boy. No, Florida Boy Ryan. Him and Dobro and, and Jordan party baby before Jordan found sobriety. And that, that house was wild.
Speaker 2 00:57:37 Oh yeah. Jordan was reckless. Man, shout out to the transformation that kids had in life because he went from a, someone that was not so cool to be around to like, just like the guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1 00:57:49 Salt to the earth.
Speaker 2 00:57:50 Yeah. Yeah. Just like wholesome as fuck. Like if I had a daughter. Yeah. That's, that's like how your husband should act, you know, like Yeah, it's Jordan Fletcher, but the Jordan Fletcher I first met prob probably not. Would've nah. Yeah. Made the cut man. He
Speaker 1 00:58:06 Was a Florida boy as well.
Speaker 2 00:58:07 Yeah, yeah, yeah. It was a little too rambunctious. But yeah, so Ryan was just like balling energy, you know, we ended up writing, uh, show Up Drunk together. And then he put that out and, you know, I was like super impressed with it. And then, I don't know, jelly was like, man, we got all these things. We got this video team, we got this, like, you know, these studios, you got all this gear. Like, we're all just like, find someone that we can help, you know? I was like, well what do you mean? He was like, kind of like artist development or something, you know, like we can give 'em a little bit of money to make their records and give them our resources and kind of tap in, let 'em use our video team that give
Speaker 1 00:58:41 Back to the community.
Speaker 2 00:58:42 Yeah. He was like, man, I just feel like, you know, like I'm come, I'm becoming a great place where it's like, well, what do I do after, after me? You know, like, where's my place in music after? I don't want to be the guy up there anymore. Or I want to be selective about how many times I'm up there. He was like, you know, like, I feel like the, in the team that we have, like, there's other people that can benefit from it. And I'm was like, yay. You know, me Jelly, I'm a efficiency junkie and we're probably using about 40% of our resources. You know, like we'd probably tap in and at least give something to somebody, you know? And so that was like, Ryan was the first one where we were like, all right, let's, let's try this. You know? Cuz uh, I brought him into the office and he played wasn't the Truck? And Jelly was just like, fucking man, play that again real quick. Man, you mind playing that three times in a row for me? Yeah. I was like, damn. He's like, yeah. And I think that song just like spoke to Jelly in a way. And like Ryan is such a songwriter, songwriter, songwriter, you know, like, I mean, he's just that guy for real. So, you know, like really excited to see this new record that he's been working on with Grady Axman
Speaker 1 00:59:46 And the grandpa song.
Speaker 2 00:59:48 Yeah. And the grandpa Grandpa.
Speaker 1 00:59:49 The grandpa song. Another just one Crabtree cut. Ha.
Speaker 2 00:59:51 Have you heard
Speaker 1 00:59:51 That? Yes. That, so, so I first heard that during c I was hanging out with Nikki t from Raised Rdy, and he was, and Ryan Ryan played it one night, we're in the backyard having cigars and chilling. And I was like, Ryan, why the fuck haven't I heard that song? He's like, man, I don't know. I don't wanna bring the mood. I'm like, dude, that is the top five. The top five Brian Nelson song. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:00:09 That is,
Speaker 1 01:00:09 It just tells a fucking story.
Speaker 2 01:00:11 Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 01:00:12 It's the mood out
Speaker 2 01:00:13 Man. It's sick. So we actually cut that one in the boneyard in my studio at the crib. So I'm excited for that one to come out. I think it's, uh, uh, uh, actually, but probably by the time this airs it's out. Yeah. You
Speaker 1 01:00:25 Know.
Speaker 2 01:00:25 Hell yeah. Y'all go check it out. It's called way back when I think. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1 01:00:28 Yeah, yeah, yeah. When's the, uh, what's touring life with Ryan Nelson and Jelly been like, like the three of you guys and your, because it's all, it's all in the family and like you've got like the security crew out with you, like, like you guys have that have that your road family. Yeah. What's it like when you bring Ryan into the mix with that?
Speaker 2 01:00:45 Oh man. You know, Ryan, for all intents and purposes is functionally dysfunctional. Yes. So, like, the one, the one mad mad respect for Ryan that I love about him is that dude will not like, make me have to wait on him to finish his cigarette. And that's super appreciative for an ex-smoker, <laugh>. Like, you know, like there's some guys won't, won't throw my guitar player under the bus. James Jones, you motherfucker. That like will make me have to sit there for five minutes while you finish your cigarette at bus, a sprinter van call in front of the lobby and it's very inconsiderate. So
Speaker 1 01:01:19 I'd, I'd throw it out at halfway just to get going.
Speaker 2 01:01:22 Yeah. Coolest thing about Ryan Nelson is that yeah, he's willing to throw the cigarette out and get in the sprinter van and get moving. Least cool thing about Ryan Nelson the way that man's feet look
Speaker 1 01:01:33 Always. He does, he does have weird looking feet. They're
Speaker 2 01:01:35 Fucking disgusting, y'all. Yeah. Cause he
Speaker 1 01:01:36 Barely wears
Speaker 2 01:01:37 Shoes. They're never the same color as his skin for whatever reason. I don't know. It's like some shade of green sometimes. Some brown, some dark black. It's disgusting. <laugh>. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:01:47 Why was it Ryan that, uh, take the chance on, because you, you, you see folks all the time. What, what was it about Ryan Nelson that you were like, this is the guy we gotta give a shot and jelly slot processor
Speaker 2 01:01:57 Too? Yeah, I mean, I do think it's the, it's the music, but part of it is that like, you gotta choose someone that's entertaining and has a personality. And Ryan definitely has that. Now. It's like, now the problem that I have with Ryan that I've gotta figure out how to work through is like how to like really harness that energy and show it to the world. Because sometimes people who are characters naturally and, and so unapologetically authentic when it comes to like, having to film it or show it, or it's just not, that's not their thing. So like for Ryan, like, I can think of a million funny times when it's like, man, if the cameras had a rolling and America had a seen this man, he'd already be a superstar.
Speaker 1 01:02:38 Yeah. But that's, well that's what I do. I, I, yeah. I take drunk, I or I take Snapchats of a fucked up Ryan Nelson. Yeah. I have him on the kickball field out there doing
Speaker 2 01:02:46 Flips. The best ones we have are yours. You know, like
Speaker 1 01:02:48 Yeah. That's just me videoing Ryan Nelson when he's fucked up and it's like, or when he's sober, just telling a joke. Yeah. He's a smart motherfucker too. Yeah. Yeah. He's, that's what I'm one of guys's why I'm saying this mayor thing, like he's got a PoliSci and a history degree from fucking Florida State <laugh> kids, got a kids, still got some brain cells left, like he can fuck. Yeah. Yeah, some, but that's, that's fucking awesome. Now how does that stuff transition in into still Matthews?
Speaker 2 01:03:12 Yeah, so honestly, yeah, I started producing some records with Jelly and started, you know, I was writing the, uh, the songs with Ryan and writing with a few other peoples in town. Uh, this kid, Brit Wilder I've worked with
Speaker 1 01:03:24 For Yep. No, pat, no, Patrick.
Speaker 2 01:03:25 Yep. Yeah, that's, that's the little homie. I've been writing songs with Patrick for four or five years. Yeah. So I guess, man, one day I, I sent Jelly this, uh, record and it was a song called Diamonds and Gold. He was like, yo, dude, that's Madf Fly. Who's that? Said, oh man, it's just a little work tape. He's like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Who's that? I was like, oh, that's me, bro. He is like, no. And I was like, yeah, dude. He's like, man, I won't put that on hold. And I was like, just my song. You're put my song on hold. And he was like, yeah, just in case I wanna drop that one, that shit's fire. And I was like, okay, sick. And so my roommate Stu Stapleton, I super dope keyboard player, right? Like, fly. I said to myself, I, I played in a, in a, in a jazz combo in college, right?
Speaker 2 01:04:16 We'd go play this bar every Friday and Saturday night. It was how I made the little, little weekend money or whatever, tips and all that shit. And it was cool. It was guaranteed money. We'd go play. And there was this dude that played keys with me. His name was Ron Gilmore, and now he's like J Cole's music director. Like, oh shit, shit. All that. Oh shit. He was a, he was a badass motherfucker. Yeah. Bad, bad motherfucking musician man. So was, so was Roon, so was Terry, man, so was Jamar. All y'all were sick. I was the only white guy. Right? Like, so like, these guys just had so much feel and so much like, just, it was a different world of music than what I'd experienced before. Like playing in rock bands. Like it just was different. I was the guy that had the feel, you know, like, I was like, no, no, no, no drummer. You gotta like swag it like this, you know, or whatever. And or we're gonna push a beat here. That's like how Rock works. You know? Like, so like, I think whenever, uh, like I, I stopped doing music and I got trapped in the accounting lifestyle. I kind of said, man, if I could ever find musicians as talented as those guys, I would do it again. So Alejandro Medina. Yep.
Speaker 1 01:05:27 No, we know, we know Alejandro.
Speaker 2 01:05:28 Yep. Yes, Stu Stapleton. They move in my house and Alejandro's got this little recording set up downstairs and I, I admittedly had a little bit of gear left, but I, I'd kind of thrown everything in a co closet. So mostly what I had that was even current and able to be used was just guitars or something, you know? So, and I mostly just had a really nice acoustic, cuz I was using it to write songs. Yeah. So I guess Alejandro, you know, had this little recording set up downstairs and Stu was upstairs one day and I was just goofing off and this beat came on and I started rapping and Stu was like, man, who whose song's that? And I was like, what do you mean? I was just off the dome? Yeah. And he was like, what do you mean just
Speaker 1 01:06:15 Freestyle a little bit? Yeah, <laugh>. And he's like, how, how is this
Speaker 2 01:06:19 You? He was like, wait a second, wait, the dude that manages Musk on Bloodline, like, he'd only been my roommate for like a week. He was like, wait, the accountant like you, what's happening right now? I was like, yeah dog, I got a different pass man. You know, like I'm kind of removed from that, you know, a few years at this point, like six years probably sober at that point. And so Stu was kind of just like, yo man, like you ever think about just like doing something? I was like mad. No, not going to either really, you know? But I was like, man, what I would do is I would get into making beatts again just cuz I'm working with Jelly and you know, like maybe, maybe could get some placements. I'm like, at that time wasn't just super thrilled with the production he had.
Speaker 2 01:07:03 I was like, it could go a different direction and be a little bit cooler in my eyes. But I was like, I just never really been a keyboard player and a lot of hip hop beats require keyboards and programming. And I was like, man, my skill's just a little different. I'm more like an engineer guy and like, you know, I can play some guitars and you know, like I, I understand music theory real well cuz I was, you know, alto sax player and improv jazz player and you know, like was pretty sick at it. And he was like, well, had clearly a melody capability. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah. So we just made this beat, made like a whole pack of them right. Threw 'em all in this Dropbox. I send it to Jelly and I'm just, we, we just keep loading up this Dropbox and I'm like, man, surely he's gonna hear something in here one day and it's gonna stick, right? So like six months later he goes, jelly calls me. He's like, man, I finally figured it out. And I was like, what's that? He's like, Dropbox is an app dog. And I was like, what? What do you mean? He was like, I didn't know you had to download the app to get into the shit
Speaker 1 01:08:12 <laugh>,
Speaker 2 01:08:13 You know? I was like, that's the only way I've been giving you beats. Like from all the other producers from me. He's like, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm in there now. I was like, bro, there's like hundreds of beats in there. I've been like thinking that these were all slaw, we all sucked. Like telling dudes go back to the drawing board, like reevaluate this.
Speaker 1 01:08:34 He didn't listen to a single and
Speaker 2 01:08:35 He had the heart of single fucking one for, and I said, oh my God, this just changes everything for me. Yeah, yeah. I'm not insignificant, you know, like, and so I guess he goes to the studio that night and he pulls one up and, uh, yellow Wolf sitting there. He goes, yeah, yo, this is fire man. I got a, I got a hook for this right now. So he lays down this hook and it's a song called, uh, Southern Hospitality. Yep. And it was a beat me and Stu made and he was like, man, where'd you get this beat and jelly? He's like, ah man. Uh, some guys on my team, you know, like <laugh>, I could tell just not one to, you know, be like my manager, you know? Yeah. Like, cuz that's not really that cool. Yeah. Like my manager gave me a beat, you know, like, but it was clearly fire. I mean, yellow chose it out, all the ones they've been listening to and it made the record. And that was like our first placement. And then it just became, you know, on the next record we did six or seven. Then on the next record we did four 12. And then on self-medicated we did 12 to 18, me and Stu. So like, we just kept getting the placements and kept getting the
Speaker 1 01:09:40 Placements. What's it like being the manager doing the b Do you still do the CPA stuff? Like is that still
Speaker 2 01:09:45 Up? No, I gave, I gave up that so,
Speaker 1 01:09:47 So that, so that, that side's gone. But being a manager, but also making beats, but also opening for the guy who you're managing and
Speaker 2 01:09:54 Para brief. Oh
Speaker 1 01:09:55 Yeah. I mean like what, what's that? Like, doing all three facets.
Speaker 2 01:09:58 Like it's a dream come true. Nobody,
Speaker 1 01:09:59 Nobody does that.
Speaker 2 01:10:00 Yeah. It's a dream. It's a dream come true. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:10:03 Like how do you keep that balance? Well,
Speaker 2 01:10:04 It's a, it's why it's like some of my close friends are like, dog, so when's like the book coming? Like when's the movie coming? People don't, like, you're a unicorn dude. Like, you can just do all this shit. And I'm like, man,
Speaker 1 01:10:14 And you and you're, and you're 34. Like you're still, you think about folks that are involved in, in bringing along artists and work and putting in the grind that you've been putting in over the last X amount of years. Usually people are like their fifties.
Speaker 2 01:10:26 Oh yeah, I'm gonna be Rick Rubin. Y'all fucking
Speaker 1 01:10:28 34. Like what? Like
Speaker 2 01:10:29 Yeah. Nashville, I'm gonna be Nashville's
Speaker 1 01:10:31 Rick Rubin. Like what do you wanna do next? Yeah, but I mean like what do you, what do you
Speaker 2 01:10:35 Keep be the most iconic music business mogul in this this city's ever had like production to to, to the business side. Like I really wanna bring urban to Nashville. So I, I wanna sit down and I wanna have a conversation with my good friend over at 30 Tigers, David Macias, about how we can put a light and use some of the resources that are in this city for something other than rocking country because there's talented people, but
Speaker 1 01:11:02 Yeah. Has the, has the rap scene always been here in Nashville? Because people talk about
Speaker 2 01:11:05 It's all, it's always been here. The, the thing that hasn't been here is these fucking white suits that won't fucking, they're terrified of it. They're terrified of the culture I grew up in. They're terrified of driving through fucking Lebanon, Tennessee where I grew up. They live in their Williamson County big brick sky rises and sell fucking music on the radio to 35 year old soccer moms. You know, they don't even sell country music to the people that really love it. Yeah. Yeah. That's why nobody likes Michael Ray's music. That's a real fucking country dude. Sorry Michael. I think you're great. You know, like Yeah. But you know, like that's just it. Y'all are missing the boat.
Speaker 1 01:11:44 Yeah. So you're
Speaker 2 01:11:46 Still forced to sell music to radio and that's a broken model.
Speaker 1 01:11:50 So you mentioned a guy earlier that you were involved on the business manager side for a second. That what it gets referred to by some folks as the Boogie man of Music Row. I'm a, I'm a fan. I've been bumping his shit for a long time since I was up in New York. Yeah, you had Upchurch involved in a lot in some of this too. What's that? Because you talk about the, the Music Row thing and people being, being scared of what they don't know and Yeah. Not willing to take a chance on it and just being scared of what it could be and changing things. Yeah. His name falls right in that shit.
Speaker 2 01:12:18 Yeah. I mean he's just, he's one of those guys that nobody's ever gonna touch cuz they're terrified of it.
Speaker 1 01:12:23 Even though the success and the fan base and like, doesn't matter. All
Speaker 2 01:12:26 That stuff doesn't. Yeah, it doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 01:12:28 How does that, how does that gap get bridged? Like how do you, how do you, how do you bring it together? What do you do? Does it, what does
Speaker 2 01:12:33 It take in? Independence still continues to thrive. More successful independent acts collaborating together. Like you can't stop Chance the Rapper, jelly Roll Russ, all these people, if they're working together, you can stop 'em if they're working alone. And that's, that's the biggest advantage that the majors will always have over the Indies, you know, but like for Catholic Upchurch, you know, it's like what's next for him? You know, one of the reasons why I'm, it, it's like the branding move with Jelly is an interesting move is because I feel like I, like I said earlier, we fit in rock now. We fit in country, we fit in alternative. So there's three mediums where they will accept us at radio even now. And that was never a dream. Even when I started working with Jelly, that would've never been a thought. I mean, my dude played the Grand Ole Opry Opry this year,
Speaker 1 01:13:33 Like rhyming
Speaker 2 01:13:35 Sold out the rhyming in 47 minutes or some shit. Yeah,
Speaker 1 01:13:38 Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:13:39 Like this is unheard of stuff that like nobody would've ever expected. So it's like, the new thing is, is that I don't think that there's ever a Place Up Church fits in and I don't think that there's ever a day when these guys accept and work with,
Speaker 1 01:13:53 But do they even have to, to that's, he can still do
Speaker 2 01:13:56 It. They can stay in their box and, and he they can stay in their box. Yeah. I guess the big thing is, is that, like for me, my goal is to make sure that a genre doesn't get missed because the resources that we do have in abundance in this city are so hyper focused on country that we don't grow the greatness that is the Nashville hip hop scene or the Nashville indie rock scene or the Nashville pop scene because we, to hold on too tightly to the country scene because we don't wanna let it go and we miss the opportunity to have our own thing here. Like, Memphis has a better rap scene than we do. Atlanta smokes us at rap. Like there's no reason We have way more resources, way more studios, way more capable business people, way more capable marketing people.
Speaker 1 01:14:46 And the talent's here too. There's some talented kids out there. There's folks that have been doing the, the rap thing in Middle Tennessee for a minute.
Speaker 2 01:14:53 But yeah, it's just, I mean, it takes the culture. Like, shout out Jimmy Allen, shout out Mickey Guyton, shout out all these people, Kane Brown that are, that are in an industry and in a, in a genre that is harder for you. It's harder for you and you're breaking barriers. And like, I commend it like, because it, it, it's not easy to want it, it's easy to love country, but it's not easy. I can't imagine to be in urban person trying to make it in country music Nashville. And like, it's just so refreshing to see that it's even possible now. Yeah. You know, like, and you know, growing up, I can't name you an African-American country artist, like nineties, that was really from the nineties. Nineties. Yeah. You know, I don't know. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:15:41 Like had Charlie Pry back in the day,
Speaker 2 01:15:43 Back in the day.
Speaker 1 01:15:43 That was a long time ago
Speaker 2 01:15:45 Though. Back in the day. But in the nineties, like, I don't know that
Speaker 1 01:15:48 In the explosion of the nineties and two thousands there wasn't a single one in the, and then
Speaker 2 01:15:51 Darius Rucker to me will never be a country
Speaker 1 01:15:53 Artist. He's always gonna be Hootie. Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 01:15:54 He's always Hootie. So it's like, it's a weird thing, you know, like, so it's like, just like, I think that as Nashville becomes more accommodating, you know, for opening the doors of its resources up to, to newer beginnings, then that's the future. You know, I'm proud that we have one of the coolest things in, in, in fucking Planet Earth here. The national, uh, museum of African American Music. Yeah. That's sick. You know, it's like, like there's a place here from more, you know, it's the same thing that Jack White did for Rock here. You know, he brought a lot with Third Man here for Rock and you know, that brought a station like Lightning 100 that really serves that market. And then it brought people like the Black Keys, you know, into the city. And so like now, you know, there's a lot of rock bands that come to Nashville to dispatch out of, to work Out of
Speaker 1 01:16:51 The Buzz does a great job of showcasing that local scene as well. 1 0 2 9 on there. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:16:55 Shout out to the buzz. They gave Jelly a chance, man. Oh
Speaker 1 01:16:58 Bro. They play him almost once every like, couple hours I tune into that station like our local boy Jelly Roll and I'm like, fuck yeah, let,
Speaker 2 01:17:05 Let's go. I love bro, let's go. And and to me that's it. That's like seeing Jelly do this and like there's some really cool pop artists in the city. You know, like there's some, I'm working with this dude, uh, uh, Mikey Mike, um, he's from Maryland. Um, but, but he's down here. We're, you know, we're working with 30 Tigers and dude, it is like the coolest fucking music ever. And the fact that it's in Nashville and I get to be a part of it, like makes me excited. Like I've got kind of an all over the place, uh, roster people I work with cuz I do work with Jelly who's, you know, his own animal. I do work with Mikey Mike, who's this alt r and b indie guy. You,
Speaker 1 01:17:44 You with, you got, um, Josh Kaiser over there. So
Speaker 2 01:17:46 Josh Kaiser, who's
Speaker 1 01:17:47 Like pop
Speaker 2 01:17:48 Nineties could could be nineties country, just like breathed life back into nineties pop country. Dude, dude
Speaker 1 01:17:53 Could read, could read like the, the phone book and it would sound like a hit. Oh my dude's got dude. It's just like, just the voice that Nashville hasn't had in a second.
Speaker 2 01:18:01 Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I got Ryan who's a little bit more his own animal. Yes. You know, like it's not up the middle country. It's Ryan Nelson, uniquely Ryan Nelson. Yeah. You know, we work with this artist, uh, Justin Wells. Yep. Um, about to start working with this artist Atlas, you know, so it's like, it's all over the map. Like Justin's an Americana guy, Atlas is kind of like, almost like Sam Smith meets a little bit of urban hiphop influence
Speaker 1 01:18:27 Ooh. With that r and b. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:18:29 Cool. His big hit is, uh, you're a fucking bitch. I hope you know that shit. I can never trust Ahoe. I had to learn that quick. How many others Ia sleeping in with. All I know is I don't deserve this shout out Atlas man.
Speaker 1 01:18:44 Yeah. So like some,
Speaker 2 01:18:45 Cause you're a fucking bitch is gonna be a gold record. And dude had nothing, no machine behind him, nothing. So like, super excited to have a guy like him and he's out in Denver, Colorado. So it's like, just the fact that Nashville's becoming a place where in, in me being a manager and a face out there that people are seeing what I'm doing with Jelly and, and, and they saw what I did in the country space and being a guy that's not even from country and accomplishing what I accomplished over there. And like they see us doing it without the labels and they see us doing it, you know, on our own accord and on our own terms and on our own dollar. And uh, I think it, it, it fires them up, you know, cuz they're like, man, I'm only getting offered this deal and you're telling me there's another option than me signing this deal.
Speaker 2 01:19:30 Yeah. It's called do it your damn self. Like do Yeah. Do you need their marketing department? How do you know the person that does the interviews is even good at interviewing? I know I'm good at interviewing. I've been doing it for a lot. I've been great at hiring people just like I'm good at retaining employees. Yeah. But it's like that's, those are things that people I don't think they think about. Yeah. Like, I'm gonna go sign up here and it's like ah. Yeah. Mean I don't know if I wanna Yeah. So it's like, are they really developing artists over there? Are they waiting for the artist to develop themselves, which you can go fucking do with or without them anyway. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:20:04 Yeah. No, for sure. They're definitely, it's a, it's, it's a, it's a valid, it's a valid point, bro.
Speaker 2 01:20:08 Yeah. I mean, yeah. Cool. Yeah. If you wanna be on radio and not on your masters, I guess sign the deal.
Speaker 1 01:20:14 Yeah. And, and not be selling. I mean, you could sell tickets without, without, without giving that up. You Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:20:18 Musk get on Bloodline. Case in point.
Speaker 1 01:20:20 I mean we, we see it right now with independent band popping,
Speaker 2 01:20:23 You know, like co wezel.
Speaker 1 01:20:25 Yes. <laugh>. Yeah. You got,
Speaker 2 01:20:27 Tell me, tell me that dude's not a fucking force.
Speaker 1 01:20:29 Yeah, he's a fucking rockstar bro. Yeah. Did you see what, did you see what he announced today? They're doing uh, the weekend of four 20. Yeah. Two shows with Snoop Dogg in the upper Midwest, like South Dakota, Lincoln, Nebraska Co Wezel and Snoop Dogg. What the fuck is that gonna be like
Speaker 2 01:20:43 Gonna be
Speaker 1 01:20:44 Sick? It's gonna be ridiculous. Um, what's something you wish you knew, uh, 10 years ago or you knew when you were like involved? Like when you were getting started in this that, you know now?
Speaker 2 01:20:53 Yeah, yeah, yeah. Totally. I think, I think the most important thing that I wish I hadn't known now was that, you know, like you don't have to, nobody else lives with the consequences of your decisions but yourself. Right? So this person's opinion of me or opinion of what they think I should be doing bears zero weight in my life because they don't have to live with the consequences of my decision. So why the fuck should I care what they think? Unless you're actually having to walk in my shoes, why the fuck should I listen to you? So a lot of people, they, they want advice, but they don't understand the difference between good advice and bad advice.
Speaker 1 01:21:39 They just want advice. They want
Speaker 2 01:21:40 Advice. So you gotta realize the source you're getting the advice from. I got a lot farther in life when I stopped taking advice from people
Speaker 1 01:21:53 And you started, you started
Speaker 2 01:21:54 Going with your gut, doing with what I really knew was right. You know, like, I don't need to turn to my, to my cousin for validation. I don't need to turn to this person over here for validation. If this is what I feel and what I'm passionate about, I need to attack that because it's gonna show, it's gonna translate my passion, my tenacity that's gonna translate in my vision. It's not gonna translate if I'm having to ask homie X over here and he fills me with some self-doubt and then homie X over here doesn't think it's a good idea. So he fills you with some self-doubt. Like, I don't give a fuck what my own mom thinks. It's like why when some people are like, Hey man, you know, like you're gonna have to act like this. You know, kind of keep it on your peace and whoa, whoa, whoa. I'll tell my own mother fuck you at the dinner table at Christmas. If, if if it's warranted. You know what I mean? Like, so it's like, that's the thing, it's like having an opinion is a dangerous thing. So it's like saying for someone, if they want my advice, I'll give it to you. Yeah. But that doesn't mean you need to take it. You live your life.
Speaker 1 01:23:07 Yeah. It's your life. Yeah. I got no, no horse in the race here.
Speaker 2 01:23:10 I'm just Yeah. I've got no horse in
Speaker 1 01:23:11 The race. I'm just here. I'm gonna love you. I'm gonna love you either way, but like you
Speaker 2 01:23:14 Do and, and as a manager, it's a thing that I've had to learn. It's like, Hey man, here's my advice. Now if you want to go a different decision, you do it. Yeah. And after I've educated you, you want to chase a different ball no problem.
Speaker 1 01:23:26 And I'm ride or die, I'm
Speaker 2 01:23:28 Here with you, I'll put my hands in my pockets and, and and, and I've chased the ball with you. But like, it's also my job to speak up and at least voice, you know what I think is best for the business we're running together.
Speaker 1 01:23:40 Exactly. Cuz because it is a business. It
Speaker 2 01:23:43 It's a business. We're running together. So it's like you've hired me to be the CEO of your company. I'm gonna give you a CEO's opinion. Yeah. You are the president though. Yeah. If the president wants to make pita chips doesn't give a fuck, then I'm a Oreo's guy and I think the margins are better. <laugh>. We're pita chips baby. Yeah. You know, like, it's cool man, you paying me to be here, so I'm gonna be here. Yeah. But at the end of the day, like that's what it takes to move forward is it's like you gotta hear the music through the static. And so many people are lost in the static that they never really get to hear the music. And I think that's the most important thing that I wish I knew 10 years ago was there were so many places in my life like still Matthews would've been doing, doing music if I had more people like Jelly Roll in my life, you know? But when I was 18 doing sing rap, like Post Malone does now was not cool. That's not cool, bro. It's gangster rap, bro. Like, you're gonna sing and you're like kind of emo about it. Like you're talking about how you got like personal problems and shit, like depression. That's not hard, bro. You're weak. That was the people around me. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:24:59 When meanwhile it
Speaker 2 01:25:00 Was meanwhile you fast forward 17 years later and post Malone singing fucking Matt Wallace songs, I'm like, man, I fucking wrote this already. <laugh>. Yeah. Damn it. How come I didn't have nobody in my life that told me I was good? And it's because they wanted to keep me in the chair. They wanted to be the person in the booth. You know what I mean? And that's why I respect Jelly more than anybody else giving
Speaker 1 01:25:23 You that chance. Because
Speaker 2 01:25:23 If anybody wanted to keep me in the chair and out of the booth, it should have been Jason Deford. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:25:30 And
Speaker 2 01:25:30 It wasn't. So that makes all the rest of you petty motherfuckers. Like at the end of the day, like, it's like, man, the dude that had the most reason to be like, oh, you shouldn't take your time doing music and being, cause
Speaker 1 01:25:43 Cause I need you to do this, this and this. I got
Speaker 2 01:25:45 X million things for you. Could be. Yeah. It's like, bro, are you, you're not gonna put your music out. You're not gonna come on tour with me. You're not gonna play these amazing songs in front of fucking rowdy fans that are gonna love them. Like, I guess I got to, if you're gonna feel that way about it. Yeah. You know, my whole life I what bro? I just don't want, you know, like trying to stay out the way, trying to stay
Speaker 1 01:26:06 Behind the scenes. Yes. Be in your
Speaker 2 01:26:07 Lane trying to just keep here and stay in my lane and do my thing. Yeah. You know, like it's kind of one of my things I've preached. But then, you know, jelly was like, man, it's not about you and me, bro. It's about that the, the heart that you're putting into this music, it's heart that other people are feeling. And just like I had a voice that needed to be heard. You're, you've got a voice
Speaker 1 01:26:24 That needed to be heard and I heard, and if I can help you, if I can help that voice get out there, I'm here for it. Bro. That's,
Speaker 2 01:26:28 It's like, that's cool. That's when we did that song overdose. Yeah. It's like, there's so many people every night that are like, you know, I lost my husband or I lost my, you know, son or I lost my whatever to overdose. And it's like this song makes me feel like I'm not alone because it's like you've clearly dealt with the same kind of feeling in your life. It's like,
Speaker 1 01:26:46 Yeah. Yeah dude, it's important. People need that real shit. Um, got a couple Nashville questions for you. Yeah. Uh, best Mexican joint in Nashville.
Speaker 2 01:26:52 Man, there's
Speaker 1 01:26:53 A lot of them. Y'all Southern folk love your Mexican
Speaker 2 01:26:56 Food. Nah. So this like tacos, mariscos, where
Speaker 1 01:26:59 The
Speaker 2 01:26:59 Fuck is that? Right? So like this is that like,
Speaker 1 01:27:02 Is this that Antioch shit,
Speaker 2 01:27:03 This that real, so there's one in Antioch, that's the Lopez and there's one in Madison, but I promise you you're gonna go in there, they're gonna look at you funny
Speaker 1 01:27:11 Because you're like, what's the green girl? You're,
Speaker 2 01:27:13 Because you're speaking English. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And b you're definitely gonna probably see some like kingpin over there doing some kind of business deal where you're like, I think he might be in the Mexican gang cartel probably.
Speaker 1 01:27:27 But that's how you know it's the best place.
Speaker 2 01:27:29 Taco z Mariscos. If you're not scared while you're eating it, you're not in the right place.
Speaker 1 01:27:33 <laugh>. All right. Um, where's, uh, one of your better, uh, what do you think is like an underrated spot that a lot of people sleep on out here, man, whether it's food, bar, hangout, whatever.
Speaker 2 01:27:45 So there's this Irish pub out, out, out in my neck of the woods, uh, near, uh, near Donald's in Donaldson, right near the near Elm Hill Marina called McNamara. Right. So this is the, the first place I took Luke Combs, y'all. So I met Luke Combs in McNamara's in the upstairs there's this little hidden bar. There's the downstairs joint, which is dope wraparound bar. Yeah. Full. I like serving. And then there's a stage over there where they play music and then upstairs is like an Irish sports pub, like big screen TVs, dartboards, you know, that kind of vibe. And so went upstairs, me and Luke sit down and uh, he orders Shepard Pie, Shepherd's Pie and fucking he's just looks at me after he is done. He's like, bro, bro, what is this place? And I was like, yeah, it's the best Irish food you're ever gonna have. Yeah. And so this place is rated like slick number one Irish pub in the world, not in Ireland.
Speaker 1 01:28:43 Wow. See I grew up around in New York. We have, yeah, we have mixed for days. What's bro,
Speaker 2 01:28:47 What's, what's the big one in New York that it beat? There's a big one in New York and a big one in Chicago that it somehow beat out.
Speaker 1 01:28:54 I mean there's Fitz Patch's
Speaker 2 01:28:55 I'm sure this is just one year ago.
Speaker 1 01:28:56 There's a lot of them. Yeah. There, there's a lot's
Speaker 2 01:28:58 A lot of, but it was whatever that iconic one is in New York. Yeah. But it's really owned by real Irish
Speaker 1 01:29:02 People. Callahan Cahan, maybe it's one of those man, I can't remember it years. Some Irish last name. But that's, I'll have to check that. So where'd you say that's at?
Speaker 2 01:29:09 McNamara. So it's at like the end of where Donaldson Pike hits Lebanon Pike. I
Speaker 1 01:29:13 Know, right. Where
Speaker 2 01:29:14 And it's in an old funeral home. Yeah. So it opened up in 2010 funeral
Speaker 1 01:29:18 Home.
Speaker 2 01:29:18 So before it was a funeral home. Yeah,
Speaker 1 01:29:20 Yeah. McElroy. Wait, I'm taking you there man. We're gonna get you drunk at the old funeral home. It's fucking sick.
Speaker 2 01:29:24 Yeah. When y'all go let me know. I'll meet y'all there, bro. It's probably like five minutes
Speaker 1 01:29:27 From the house. It's, it sounds tight. My treat, dude. Hell, hell yeah bro. I'd be down for some fucking, they probably got the good fucking corn beef. Have you beef? Had beef in
Speaker 2 01:29:34 There? Have you ever had scotch eggs?
Speaker 1 01:29:36 No,
Speaker 2 01:29:37 Bro. So this is the other thing that I put Luke combs on. Yo. So they take a egg, right. Hard, hard boiled egg, right? Yeah. And they put this batter around it that's got like bits of sausage in it and they deep fry it so it's a deep fried, hard boiled egg. Oh geez. And then they have like this Cajun mayo sauce that you put on it. I'm telling you to fucking change your life. Like people that don't like eggs even like these. So it's like, that's how you know it's good and you're like, I'm not really that guy. And you're like, just try a little bit man. I think, I think it'll be different.
Speaker 1 01:30:07 Yeah. Um, you fuck with the hot chicken thing at all? Oh yeah. Or the barbecue thing. Yeah, you're probably princes.
Speaker 2 01:30:12 Oh, Bolton's really
Speaker 1 01:30:14 Bones. Where's
Speaker 2 01:30:14 That? Boltons Boltons.
Speaker 1 01:30:16 Oh, Boltons. Oh.
Speaker 2 01:30:16 Super Boltons guy. But mainly just because I like the hot fish better.
Speaker 1 01:30:21 Ah, they give you the hot fish there. They've
Speaker 2 01:30:23 Got the hot fish
Speaker 1 01:30:23 There, there, there's a place in Franklin that does that. What's his name? Big shakes. Yeah. Big shakes big. Yep. He fucks with some hot catfish too. Yeah. That's
Speaker 2 01:30:30 Big old big
Speaker 1 01:30:30 Old boy in the back, in the, in the kitchen making out the fish out the milkshakes and them hot. That hot fish, that hot chicken.
Speaker 2 01:30:36 Yeah. Hot, hot catfish and hot whitefish is my jam. But yeah, as far as the chicken goes, I think that the chicken is probably best at prince's, but the sides of Hattie bees are
Speaker 1 01:30:48 Good. Are good. That mac and cheese is good.
Speaker 2 01:30:50 The mac and cheese is good. The potato salad's good. The, even the peach cobbler they got for dessert's. Good. The banana pudding's good. Yeah. Like, yeah. So I think that's the gift of Hattie Bees is if I, I gotta like choose somewhere. It's probably there if I'm taking someone that's not like local, but if you're like, oh, I'm a hot fish guy. Boltons all day. A hundred percent. A hundred percent.
Speaker 1 01:31:13 I don't think I've had Boltons yet. And I like, I like the catfish cause it's not something I grew up on. It's hot.
Speaker 2 01:31:17 Well,
Speaker 1 01:31:18 I mean it can go low. Like do they, they have the, the typical flares where it's like medium mild that goes up.
Speaker 2 01:31:22 Yeah. But it's like whatever it is compared to the other ones you've had, it's, it's
Speaker 1 01:31:26 Might as well eat the damn shit naked <laugh>. Yeah. Yeah. A little tabba.
Speaker 2 01:31:29 Go on. Just one less down. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You're like, whoa.
Speaker 1 01:31:33 Damn. So what do we got cooking the rest of 2022? So 12 Steps just came out. I'm betting there's touring dates. What do we got going? Dropping
Speaker 2 01:31:39 Songs, few shows on the road with Jelly music videos. Uh, Jelly's got an album coming out. Uh, shit. Atlas has got an album coming out. Mikey, Mike's got an album coming out. Josh Kaiser's got an EP coming out.
Speaker 1 01:31:53 Ryan's pushing stuff.
Speaker 2 01:31:54 Ryan's got an album coming out. Justin Wells is going into cut. Uh, everybody's on the road. C'S disappearing. Yep. You know, I love it.
Speaker 1 01:32:03 I, I think we're actually doing a show and I say we are like, uh, Trey, we have a, I think it's at, um, Taylor County, boondocks Butler, Georgia. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which I thinks some, some guys int true with. Right? Yeah. We're, we're on that one. I think direct support with Jelly. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:32:17 Yeah. Yeah. Jackie Patel is the promoter.
Speaker 1 01:32:19 Shout out
Speaker 2 01:32:19 Jackie,
Speaker 1 01:32:20 Bro. Oh, we love us some Jackie. Jackie's a true man. We were, we did, um, we had a show at Wendell's and it's the infamous show. It was during, during that Covid time and early 2021. Yeah. And, um, packed out the inside of Wendell's. Yeah. Which the inside of Wendell's was like fucking experience. I know you guys were outdoors for that jelly show, but that inside that room gets, it looks small and it gets tighter as people pack in. It gets, yeah, dude, it's crazy. So we had, something had happened where the cops had gotten called and they kind of saw what was, what was in there and they were like, yeah, you guys are operating on a restaurant license. Like we gotta shut this down. So Trey gets up there, plays a 10 minute version of Dick down in Dallas, and then afterwards it was our lighting guy's birthday and Jackie just hooked it up with fucking Shine and whiskey and all this stuff. Yeah. And the crew just partied, man, we, one song that's all Tre to play just played Dick down at the beginning, like Yeah. And whatever. Cuz it got shut down. But then Jackie was just, he's been great every time we've been out there. We love Jackie.
Speaker 2 01:33:12 Jackie's a trip dude. Yeah. So him, him and Bradley took care of us at, at
Speaker 1 01:33:16 Wendell's. Yes. Yeah, both both do a really good job at that.
Speaker 2 01:33:19 Yeah. They're solid man. Best, best, best promoters in the south if you ask me. Yeah, dude. Dude, they're in lane, man. Shout out Lane man. Yeah
Speaker 1 01:33:25 Man. We're part of that 65 South family. You got to see the inception of that. Yeah. You were there for the birth of that shit.
Speaker 2 01:33:30 Yeah. Yeah. I mean literally watched the beginning of it with Murphy and Riley and uh, and Musket on. Yeah. I remember just talking cuz at that time, you know, like I was working with Riley and Musket on, so I mean I was pretty much two thirds of 65 South's negotiation
Speaker 1 01:33:48 And now, now negotiating
Speaker 2 01:33:49 It against my best friends Bradley in, in fucking lane. And I'm like, Hey, this is, this is cool dude. We're gonna be something someday. And they're like, maybe, you know, like none of us knew. I don't think any of us were sure were sure man. Like even before me, Bradley will tell you stories about selling four tickets at Peachtree Tavern to fucking Cole Swindell and like Luke Bryant and Chase Rice shows, you know, and nobody gave a shit.
Speaker 1 01:34:13 Just taking a chance. Yeah. But it's like not getting, not getting, not getting deterred by the early stages of your business. Yeah. Because it's gonna, it takes, it takes a minute for growth, man. You gotta put in them work, take some losses. A hundred
Speaker 2 01:34:23 Percent. Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:34:23 Takes some losses before you start winning,
Speaker 2 01:34:25 Bro. Just think of Jelly had quit after 15 years. <laugh>. I mean it's the last five years of his career, the 16 through 20 that have taken him off. Yeah. You know what I mean? So it's like, it's like my friend, uh, my friend Jelly says it the best, right? Like, he's like, man, if you give me a baseball bat and you tell me I can be in fucking, you know, let's call it Yankee Stadium and I can be here as long as I want and I can swing this bat as many times and you'll gimme a million dollars if I hit it outta this ballpark, I'm not going home until that I hit one outta the ballpark. Like, I'm gonna swing 10 million times I'm gonna die in that ballpark. Maybe cuz I didn't eat, maybe cuz I didn't do anything. But he's like, I'm not leaving the ballpark. It's like, that's where I think people are so they overthink things, you know, they, they, they don't put it out or they don't do this or they don't take this risk because they want everything to be a great decision. You know what, like it's like baseball. I'm telling you the best businessmen I know they're batting average is 300%.
Speaker 1 01:35:27 Yeah. And they'd be Hall of Famers. The
Speaker 2 01:35:29 Reason, the reason why they're hall of fame businessmen and multi-billionaires is cuz they're batting average was 300% because they got up to bat 5,000 times with a new business idea. So everybody in this world that thinks that they're gonna get up to bat with one business idea or one song idea and it's gonna be the one man that ain't it. That ain't it dude. So you gotta just keep, keep, keep fucking doing it. Nobody's gonna bat a thousand, nobody's gonna bat 500. Not even fucking Luke Combs. You know, not even fucking, the jelly rolls not even, you know, nobody bats a thousand. So it's like you gotta learn what's acceptable to you and not be scared of risk, especially at a younger age when risk is, you know, a good time. The thing that you're, the thing that you're working for the most or that most artists are working for when they move to this town is the risk that they shouldn't take the risk of whether a record label's gonna, cuz they're batting averages.
Speaker 2 01:36:32 One in 100 go down to any record label in town. You ask last to see their books and you say how many, how many of y'all are, you know, how many of your artists are in the black man? And as a matter of fact, if you wanna see Warners, it's a publicly traded company. Warner Music Group is their stock ticker symbol. You can look at their 10 k if you'd like. I do it all the time. That's why I'll never sign a deal with 'em. Yeah. You can't even operate your business profitably. Why the fuck would I be here? I'm used to working, I'm used to working with businesses
Speaker 1 01:37:04 Margin and for a while. It's funny, we had, we had David Nail on here, um, a couple episodes back man. He was saying that when he was getting started they able saying the money that they were spending, they were just like, for a while the, the label system was operating off the money that was coming in from the nineties, from the early two thousands. They weren't legacy
Speaker 2 01:37:22 Catalogs.
Speaker 1 01:37:22 Yeah, yeah. Legacy. They're
Speaker 2 01:37:23 Operating off legacy catalogs legacy
Speaker 1 01:37:25 Been there and, and it's starting as time goes on, it runs like that. Money runs out.
Speaker 2 01:37:30 Well yeah, no more did legacy catalogs play because you know, you can't sell the CD that was originally purchased on vinyl, on tape, on CD anymore. Yeah. And nobody really gives a fuck.
Speaker 1 01:37:39 That's why, that's why David said he would, that's why David said he was happy to have come up when he did because that 2008 to like 2013.
Speaker 2 01:37:47 Yeah. He won because he got to experience the last of the physical product era Yeah. Into the streaming era.
Speaker 1 01:37:53 Yeah. And yeah. And then be part of that, that forefront where they still had the record money. Yeah. When, when record in record labels were more a part what needed to be and now it's like, it's the wild west out there and if you, if you got a mind, you got someone like you in your corner, you got some help out there. Like you're
Speaker 2 01:38:09 Just building a business like any other
Speaker 1 01:38:11 Businesses. Yeah. Why not? Why not be a friend? Why not be an independent owner instead of a franchise? Yeah, yeah. You know, that's kinda what it comes down to it.
Speaker 2 01:38:18 I mean it's easy if you wanna shoot 10 videos a year and you've got a $5,000 per video budget to pay $50,000. Yeah. It's also easy to hire a kid for $36,000 and put 'em on payroll and figure it out. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1 01:38:29 Yeah. If you got the capital. Yeah.
Speaker 2 01:38:30 Yeah. And if it works out for you, you know, then
Speaker 1 01:38:33 Score score. Huge, huge return on investment
Speaker 2 01:38:35 If it doesn't hire someone else. Yeah. You know what I'm
Speaker 1 01:38:37 Saying? You gotta take that chance. Dude, this has been probably one of the most interesting podcast interviews I've done because you can fucking talk and I've learned so much. And how long this has been McElroy Wayne? How long we been going? Hour 45. Five. We're right at the sweet spot. Cool. Um, sweet. So bro, where can people go to find you? So it's what still, still Matthews Still
Speaker 2 01:38:58 Matthews. S t i l l got the name from uh, disease. I have autoimmune disorder called Stills Disease. Okay. And then, uh, Matthew is my first name. I figured I'm making my last name. So Yeah.
Speaker 1 01:39:09 Still maths. Yeah. And um, we, well cause I'm gonna label this cuz like this is, we talked a lot about the industry. Yeah. We talked about the artists and we talked about it all. Yeah. If I, if there's like some young folks out there cuz that's part of what this industry series thing is kind of for is shaping this next generation to have on real motherfuckers like yourself. Yeah, yeah, yeah. To to hear instead of just hearing the professor at whatever XYZ school, they're paying 70 grand a year to go to Yeah. Hear from the real motherfuckers that have been in the trenches doing it. Yep. Um, is it cool, cool if some of our, some of our younger folks hit you up or whatever? You, you down a hundred percent down, down to get back to the community a little bit. Education
Speaker 2 01:39:45 Folks. Yeah, no, a hundred percent. Why? While I got you dude, I'll, I'll hit it with it as easy as this y'all if you need me. It is 1 6, 1 5, 8 0 8, 8 1 9 6, 6 1 5, 8, 0 8, 8, 1, 9 6. It's text only. You can't call it. Just fyi.
Speaker 1 01:40:05 Hell yeah bro. Well we we appreciate it man. Um, it it, it's cool too because I haven't really, I've never gotten to like sit down and like hang with you like Yeah I think I was, I was Ryan Nelson's DD to a Jelly Roll release party. That party party self-medicated. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think I saw
Speaker 2 01:40:20 Were kind of like in and out. Yes.
Speaker 1 01:40:21 Cause I was fashion. Yeah we were in and out and then, um, I saw you I think at a MAPCO one time when I was going on the road with Gary and Charlie. We were heading out somewhere and they and I, I got introduced to you there and then I think I met you on the golf course but it's been a blast to sit down, actually talk with you and down to hang whenever bro. Cause it's, yeah man, it's cool to see the cuz all those, a lot of those names you were talking about, I've, I'm in those circles now. We're in those circles later. It's like you were in there from the beginning. So Yes. It's fucking sick. Y'all make sure to check out, uh, our boy Matt Wallace money, Matt aka still Matthews, uh, the new song 12 Steps. It is out right now.
Speaker 1 01:40:54 So y'all go pick it up pre-order the shit on iTunes or order it now that it's out. Uh, but of course spin it everywhere, do all that shit. Um, be sure to look for tour dates that he'll be out on the road with Jelly Roll on and uh, of course shout out to the sponsors as always. Whale Tail Media. It's cool. He mentioned Saxon Studios. Yeah, gravy's one of our sponsors. So Saxon Studios out there, Mount Juliet getting shit done. Uh, our friends in the Green World, that tasty Delta eight t HC that we have here in Tennessee. Uh, our boys at Trailside CBD use the promo code itr, you get 20% off dabs, edibles, flour, tincture shit for your dogs. They got it all. They'll go check 'em out. And then our buddy that, uh, helped make this one possible today, Mr. Mitch Wallace, the digital marketing agency, he's been killing it in the content game. Need help with your business, go and check him out. It's been the In Thero podcast with our man, Matt Wallace, a k a, still Matthews. Um, thank you guys for tuning in. We'll see you all next time.
