Roger Springer: Country Music Then & Now

[00:00:00] Speaker A: Foreign. [00:00:12] Speaker B: Come on. [00:00:15] Speaker A: This is Outside the Round with Matt Burrill for Rage Rowdy podcast. What's going on, guys? Welcome back to Outside the Round with me, Matt Burrill. Today, a very special guest, a legend in the country music world, a guy that is referred to as an og, A man who's been doing it a long time, who got to be a part of one of the greatest eras of music period in the the 80s, the 90s, the early 2000s country world. He works with a lot of our good friends that are coming up right now. If you like traditional country music, this is a man that you want to thank. He's originally from the great state of Oklahoma. We got our man, Roger Springer. Roger. When I. I had our good mutual friend Colton Dawson on here, and after we got done recording his episode, he said to me, man, you got to get Roger on here. And then Jake Worthington seconded it and was said, hey, man, you got to have Roger on. You might have to cut some stuff out because Roger lived in the heyday of the wild times, man. But hey, thank you so much for making the trip up here and sitting. Sit up on that microphone a little bit more. [00:01:17] Speaker B: Yes, sir, you bet. [00:01:18] Speaker A: So, man, so you've been. When did you first get out here to Nashville, Tennessee? [00:01:22] Speaker B: I got here in August of 1990. [00:01:25] Speaker A: Wow. [00:01:25] Speaker B: Yeah. So I got here for. For the whole run of the 90s. Yes. [00:01:29] Speaker A: That's wild. Now, what was, what was the scene like in Oklahoma coming up? Because Oklahoma and that red dirt world and Texas country is, is it's its own world. And I know it was going on back then, but what prompted you to pack up from small town Oklahoma to come out here to Music City? [00:01:47] Speaker B: Well, you know what, we had never heard of the term red dirt when, when back through the 80s. And I was, I was playing in a band back in Oklahoma to make extra money because I was skinning hogs at a sausage. [00:01:58] Speaker A: Oh, really? No way. [00:01:59] Speaker B: Potter sausage. And worked in a rendering plant and skinned hogs and, and did that. So I was playing in a, in this local band back home for a few years through the early 90s. I mean, 30 early 80s. And, and you know, we was playing honky tonks, clubs, you know, every weekend, playing a couple of nights a week. And Randy Travis, I mean, I had it on my mind. But when I heard that first Randy Travis album, that was it for me. I thought, you know, I gotta go be a part of this. Go see if I can be a part of this, you know. Yeah. So I got some plans and saved some money up, bought a few heifers and put on my dad's place. And that was kind of my bank account, you know, was able to buy about 18 Brammer heifers, put a bull on them. And that was my bank account, you know. So I thought we'll come up here and give it a couple of years if I can hold out. And. And you know, it was a. It was a big boom that was going on because country, the country resurgence was in full swing. Yeah. So if you were from Oklahoma, Texas, New Mexico, Louisiana, kind of that Midwest part of the state when you got here, if you had a cowboy hat on a guitar, you know, you could get started pretty easy back then. And it was a great time. Yeah. [00:03:13] Speaker A: Man of the other guys that were coming up at that time, I mean, you think of Oklahoma, obviously mine, the mind goes to like Garth and goes to what Tex? What was going on in Texas with George and Randy and, and all those guys coming out of there. So did you cross paths with any of them before you moved out here? Being in that world? [00:03:29] Speaker B: I didn't, you know, I moved here side unseen. I didn't know anybody here when I got here and I, when I didn't even know where Music Row was at when I got here. I moved everything. I got down here on my granddad's trailer and had an old guitar and. And I come to. I thought all the music business was down there for downtown Nashville, you know. And somebody had to tell me, no, it's on 16th Avenue. So as you know, it's a one way street there, 17th Avenue. I was trying to find music roll. And I was driving down, I was driving down 17th Avenue and it was just a bunch of houses, you know. And I was like, I couldn't figure out what was what there, but I saw this one glass, black glass building that had these words on it that was as cap. And I thought. I didn't even know what ASCAP was. Ye. I thought, well that's gotta be something to do with the music, you know. So I pulled in there and walked in and told him that I was from Oklahoma and had some songs I had written. And they said, yeah, this guy named John Briggs, will, he's new here, he'll see you. Well, that was the start of my whole career there. I went in and played some songs for him and he said to me, well, I wasn't trying to be a. I didn't come here to be a songwriter. I didn't think, yeah, I was looking for a record Deal. And so I went in and played John some songs and he said, hey, man, he said, if I can put you with some hit songwriters, he said, I think you. I think you could write some hit songs. And that's kind of started my whole journey. [00:04:58] Speaker A: Wow, that's wild. Did you have to do any odd jobs when you first moved here? Were you able to get right into the music? [00:05:03] Speaker B: And I had a record deal like in two months. [00:05:05] Speaker A: Wow. [00:05:06] Speaker B: So MCA signed me in 1991 and I thought that was really lucky, but it's really bad luck because I. It happened so fast. I didn't have time to get here and learn what anything was about. And I. I just made one little mistake after one little mistake and pretty soon I didn't have a record deal anymore. [00:05:23] Speaker A: Yeah. And I feel like the power of the record labels was so different back then. And radio was everything. And getting your CD at Walmart or Tower Records or whatever, you've seen it all change. [00:05:37] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's good. Yeah. That record deal, you know, ended fairly quick and I went. I signed my first writing deal with EMI Music Publishing in 1992 after the record deal. So I. I spent 10 years under the EMI roof. 97 writers under that roof. Back through there. [00:05:58] Speaker A: Wow. [00:05:59] Speaker B: Yeah, it was a good time. [00:06:01] Speaker A: That's wild. Tell me about the Right one left and that being some songs that have gotten the chart, like the 90s. You had some songs that were out there. [00:06:08] Speaker B: Radio didn't do too good. [00:06:10] Speaker A: No, it didn't make it as far as you wanted it to, but. But still, just what was that feeling coming from a small town in Oklahoma? It was having records out to the world. [00:06:18] Speaker B: Yeah, it was cool. Yeah. I mean, it all went by so fast, you know, I mean, it was a. It was a crazy. It was a fast lane for a minute for a country boy. But, you know, I look back on it now and I have for many years. I, you know, God always leads us where we need to be, you know, and the songwriter, I mean, the songwriting life for me has been exactly the right lane for me. I've. I wasn't. I wouldn't cut out to be on the bus for forever. [00:06:41] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:06:42] Speaker B: I spent seven years on the bus with Chestnut and I kind of got my taste of that. [00:06:45] Speaker A: Yeah. I want to get into like the. When does the pivot happen to Roger Springer, the artist with the Roger Springer Band? To Roger Springer, the songwriter that's coming up and being. Being the guy behind. Behind songs with guys like Mark Chestnut and others in the 90s. [00:07:02] Speaker B: Well, you know, when I lost the first record deal on mca, I just put my head down and started writing songs. And I really had to learn. I Great teachers. Dean Dillon, Whitey Schaefer, Tim Menzies, Skip Ewing. Although I was writing, and the only reason I was getting to write with those guys was because I had a record deal for a moment. And so I made some friendships there. When I lost my record deal, I had been here long enough to realize that these guys were these legend guys. They were only writing with me because I had a record deal. [00:07:31] Speaker A: They were writing for cuts. [00:07:32] Speaker B: Yeah, they were writing for cuts, right. So when I lost my record deal, I thought, you know, hey, I gotta do. I gotta do something here because these guys are not gonna write with me now. So I gotta thought about it for a little bit and I picked up the phone and called each one of them, and I had the same spill for every one of them. For Dean and for Tim and for. For Whitey. All of my. I called him and said, hey, I. I'm sure y' all have heard I lost my record deal. But I said, if you'll book one more day with me, I'll bring in five songs, half done verse and a course. And if you don't like any of them, I'll take you to early lunch and I won't ever call you again. And every time I tell every. I take the same spill on every one of them, right? And every time I got to that, to that part, to the end of it, they all laughed and said, well, kind of hard to beat that deal. Yeah, we'll book another day. So I did my homework, you know, and just worked and worked and worked and took in five songs. And I remember when I got to Dean, I had five, right? [00:08:32] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:08:32] Speaker B: And I sat there in front of him and I played the first one. And he didn't even. He didn't acknowledge that I even played it, you know, and so played the second one, nothing. Third one, nothing. Fourth one, nothing. And I had one more thing and I played it for him and. But, you know, I got it done with it. And he said, I'll write that one with you. And so that's. I had to kind of have the same experience with all of them. Worked my way back in there and that started my writing career. [00:08:59] Speaker A: That's wild. Then how do you get linked up. [00:09:00] Speaker B: With Mark Chestnut, 1994. Celia Froelich over at EMI, she was the head of the company. She stopped me in the hallway and said, hey. She said, get ready. She said, Two weeks from now, she said, you're gonna get on a bus with Chestnut and for a two week run. And I was scared to death. You know, I never had met Mark. He had cut a song of mine on the, on the previous album that me and Tony Martin had written called Live a Little. So when I got on the bus with Chestnut, I was scared to death. You know, he was a big star. He was in his heyday. And over that two weeks time, we did. We didn't even write a song. We just drank a little beer and talked a lot about hunting and fishing, and that's about it. We just became friends. And then that bus ride lasted seven years. And through that, because of that, I wasn't looking for a record deal anymore, but because we started having some hits. Then Doug Johnson from a Giant come to me and asked me if I wanted to cut a record. I think it was in 1998. [00:10:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:10:06] Speaker B: I told him no, that I didn't want to do that. And I went out on the road with Mark and told him that Doug had offered me a record deal. And Mark said, man, don't do it. He said, we're writing all these songs together, you know, he said, you don't need to be cutting a record. We need, I need these songs over here. I said, okay, I won't. I'm not going to do it. Well, Doug come back to me and about a week or so later and said, come on, man, let's go put this band together. Let's do the Roger Springer Band. And he said, it'd be fun. We'll. We'll go have a good time. And went back on the mark. And I started wanting to do it. You know, I had to put that out of my mind for so long. And I thought, well, you know, I might, I might want to go cut another record. And so I went back on the road with Mark and I told Marcus, hey, man, dog, you know, come back to me again on this record deal. And I said, I said, I'll make a deal with you if, if, if you're okay with me cutting this record, Mark, I won't record a single song that you don't pass on. I'll play everything for you first. And he said, all right, go get it. That's what we did. [00:11:06] Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. And something that I think is really cool about, about your journey is that you've gotten to be here for, for so much. You've, you've hit Mark of being in town and you got to experience the 90s and you've gotten to see the whole thing evolve. [00:11:23] Speaker B: Right. [00:11:24] Speaker A: Like what was the, what were the thoughts on like when the two, when 2000 comes around and you start getting the generation after Mark Chestnut, like the Aldeans, the Luke Bryans, the Brad Paisley's, the, The later, the second half of McGraw and Chesney, like, how do a guy like you comes up in 1990 when the old heads were probably like Mark Chestnut, that's a whole different thing. Or Garth Brook, a whole different thing. What was it like kind of having been in town for 10, 15 years for the 2000s chapter of country music? [00:11:57] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you what I did in 1999. I, I had, I went to Oklahoma and bought a 2,000 acre ranch. [00:12:05] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:12:05] Speaker B: And I deer hunted for the next seven years. [00:12:08] Speaker A: Oh, you took a break? [00:12:09] Speaker B: I took a break, yeah. Because all. Because, you know, I mean, like I said, I had been on the, the road for so long, you know, and it had been a crazy, I mean we, A lot of work, you know, through the, to build all that stuff through the 90s. So I was ready for a break and music was starting to change a little bit and I knew that it was, you know, what we were doing was going to go away someday. Tim Menzies had told me somewhere in the mid-90s, he said, you know, what we're doing is going to go away someday. And he said, when it does, don't chase what's coming. And we didn't know what was coming. You know, he said, don't chase what's coming. Just stick with what you do to come back to you. And I really, at that time when he told me that we were right in the man, we were killing it. Yeah. And, but I knew he was right. And so when that, when it started happening, I mean, I knew it. So I just, I just, you know, went and did something else for a little while. Deer hunted and run a dozer and. And then I, about 28 or nine, about another nine years I thought, you know, I was still writing some out there, right. I was still writing and be doing that, but, but there wasn't really a lot of purpose for it. But I don't know, I just kind of kept doing that. I'd come out here and write for four or five years and it, you know, time wouldn't change. I, through the 2000s, I got some cuts on Easton Corbin, Randy Travis and, and Josh Turner and, and Tim McGraw through the 2000s and Kenny Rogers, just a few things. But I just kept Coming back and writing for a year or two. And about the time I met Jake Worthington, I knew we were getting close. And I'd met Jake down in a bar down in Texas. Some friends of mine told me to go down and see him. He was a great singer. So I drove down and met Jake for the first time. He was playing for about six people in this little club and he got off the stage and I said I'd never met him until that night. I said, how come you don't have a record deal? He said, I'm never going to get a record deal. I said, man, I guarantee you that's not true. I said, come up to my place in Oklahoma and we'll do some deer hunting and we'll do some co writing and I think we can make a difference. When I brought him back, I moved and come back to Tennessee and brought Jake. I just give him a place to stay. So he would come to my house and, and say all week and we would write and then he would go back and gig in Texas and then come back the next week and he just drove back and forth, back and forth for 18 months. Wow. We just sit down and wrote songs and anything's worked out, you know, for Jack, he's doing well. [00:14:41] Speaker A: Yeah. What is it about the. What do you think it is about that 90s country sound that has found its way back? Like, what do you think it took? Why do you think it took so long? And what do you think it is about it that's just so timeless about the era that you've gotten to be a huge part? [00:14:57] Speaker B: Well, that's the right word is timeless. You know, country. A great melody with a great lyric. That's what I always. Country music has always been about that. Yeah, I've really missed that. I hear stuff. I mean, hey, to each their own and everybody has their day in the sun. And I'm happy for them guys, you know, they had they. And they're still out there killing it. But I don't know, I think, I think America, country music lovers, they love a timeless melody. A great melody with a simple lyric on it. You know, Dean Dillon told me, you know, early on in the 90s, things that I never forgot was, you know, as far as the songwriting rules, like tell them what you told them or tell them what you got to tell them, Tell them what you told them and tell them again. Meaning just keep it simple, you know, don't try to over outright your, you know, don't make your listeners have to think too much. You know. [00:15:47] Speaker A: Yeah. How rewarding of a feeling is it seeing what Jake Worthington's doing and getting to be a part of? Are a guy I consider a little brother in Colton Dawson? Like, what's it. What's it like kind of being like an uncle to these kids and watching them grow? [00:16:04] Speaker B: It's incredible. [00:16:05] Speaker A: Passing down. It's like a tradition of passing it down to the next generation. [00:16:09] Speaker B: It's incredible. Feels like I love it because, you know, and I just had it. Me and Mark Chestnut just called me a couple of days ago, and we had a long conversation, you know, and. And. And I told him, I said, you know, for the last 20 years, it's. For the past 20 years, it feels like nobody heard what we did, you know, I mean, you turn on the radio, you don't hear any influence of what we did through the 90s for the last 20 years. And so I was telling Mark, I said, I'm meeting all these young guys now. I was talking to him about Coat and Dawson, you know, real Bannister, Jake Worthington. [00:16:38] Speaker A: He knows Kenny Whitmire. [00:16:39] Speaker B: Yeah, Kenny Whitmire. And I was telling Mark about all these young guys, and. And, you know, Mark being down in Texas, he's not here, and seeing some of this stuff early on. And I said. I told him the same thing. I said, you know, it seems like no one even heard what we did. So what it felt like, oh, through the 90s, I haven't heard. I've heard nothing. And she has. And Mark said, yeah, I felt the same way. And I said, well, all these guys now are like, they're the biggest Mark Chestnut fans. You know, they love what you do. And, you know, Mark was like, really? He's like, man, he said, thank you for telling me that. He said, hey, if any of them ever want to call me, y' all pick up phone and call me. I said, well, we'll be. We'll do that. Man, that's good to see these guys, and they're incredible. [00:17:19] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think it is about. Was about your time back home on the ranch? Because Jake. When we were hanging out at the local that night, Jake was telling me about just how important those times were for him. Like, you two really built, like, a brotherhood and built, like a family connection. What is it about getting out to a remote setting like that and just like you said, keeping it simple. Like, it feels like you guys went through a lot together in that time, living on that ranch together. [00:17:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Oh, you know what? I've been country music you know, I mean, I don't know. I mean, just being out in the woods and, you know, being out there, just being country boys, you know, I mean, that's just not. Not in a. In a city setting. I don't know. I don't like to write up. I don't like to write uptown no more. I like to write, you know, like country songs. In the country. [00:18:05] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:18:06] Speaker B: You know, I don't know, it seems like I spent, you know, I spent 10 years writing in a cube, you know, a little writing room every day with no windows. You know, I did it because I didn't know any better and. And I had to. But I mean, now that I have a choice to write, I don't know if people book. To me, the best songs don't come from writing, you know, book. You book a session at 10am or 11am and write for two or three hours and then, you know, be done and you're on to the next appointment. I don't know, I don't. I don't enjoy that. I don't think you get great. To me, I can't get great songs from that. I'd rather have everybody in a setting where we can write for a little while we get stuck, or if we need a little break from it, we can get up and do something else for a minute and come back and write a little bit more. And there's no time limit on it. I'd rather go all day long. And then I had, you know, a two hour, three hour window. [00:19:00] Speaker A: Yeah, it's like. I mean, it's art. It's like. It's like if a guy or a girl is an artist and painting, there's not a time limit. Some of those paintings take years to make or take months to make. I feel like songwriting is not that far off from that where you don't. It's tough to put a window in a box because then you're. You're rushing to get it done. [00:19:19] Speaker B: Yeah. I mean, it's quality, you know, I mean, that's what I loved about the old, you know, the guys that taught me. Dane Dillon, Whitey Schaefer, who wrote everything. You know, Whitey was just such a legend. And those, Those were the. They were the master. They were the best generation of lyricists. They just. Everything was just, you know, perfect, but simple, but perfect. And those are the hardest songs to write. I mean, simplicity is the. The quintessential country music sound, you know, and that's. It's for the working people and for the country People, you know, I mean, those are the hardest songs to write, but they're the. They're timeless. You know, you get them right. [00:19:55] Speaker A: Yeah. And I feel like you're starting to create that with. I mean, Jake's last record was so freaking good, man. You guys and all the other writers, everybody that was involved with that record. Talk about getting to have your hands on. On a whole. On a project like that as a writer and, like, write what? Like getting in the room and writing an album. [00:20:16] Speaker B: Oh, it's fantastic. [00:20:17] Speaker A: I mean, it had been a while since you. I'm sure you'd gotten to do that, where you sat down and worked on a whole collection of songs. [00:20:24] Speaker B: Well, yeah. Jake was the first one. You know, when we started that, like I said, we wrote on that. To write that first record. We will. We wrote 18 months straight, and just. We just put our head down and started digging ditches, you know, and getting us. Getting the catalog built up. And you have to. I mean, it was a great time because we. I knew. I believed in Jake, and I knew where I. You know, I knew where he was headed. So it was a. It was a great time. And then. And then to see these other ones. Colton Dawson come in. He's 19 years old and shows up. You know, that's killing me with this kid. I mean, he's not a kid. He's a grown man now. But, you know, these guys show up and, you know, he plays his hind end off. He writes great. He sings great. He's. I just, you know, Coton's incredible. Will Bannister is another one. Great writer, great singer. [00:21:10] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:21:10] Speaker B: What. [00:21:11] Speaker A: How did you first get connected with Colton? [00:21:14] Speaker B: Well, I. Funny, I was on social media. [00:21:19] Speaker A: Oh, you do get on there. [00:21:20] Speaker B: Well, I get on there and scroll, you know, And I saw this young guy singing a song that Jake and I had written. And he was doing a cover, right? Yeah. And it killed me. I was just like, go, you know, look at this guy. So I just, you know, got on there and sent him a message, private message, and. And told him. I said, man, it's incredible. I said, you know, where are you at in life? And, you know, I didn't know anything about coaching. And he said, I'm still in high school. And I said, okay, well, when you get out of school, I said, man, you're welcome in my writing room anytime. And. And sure enough, his dad brought him down. Gary and a great people. Yeah, they are great family. They are great people. And Gary brought him down and. And we sat around and talked for A little bit. And Colton played me a song he had written, like, at 16 years old. Just blew me away. Like, I stood up off my couch and went, golly, man, that is so good. [00:22:13] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:22:13] Speaker B: So anyway, we started writing and, you know, and we started writing, like, every single day, preparing for this record that we were getting ready to record, and we wrote the. I think we wrote the 95% of the record in three weeks. [00:22:29] Speaker A: Wow. [00:22:30] Speaker B: Yeah. So we got out, we humped up, and got it done. [00:22:32] Speaker A: But is. Is It's Gonna Rain one of those songs? Yeah, that is one that has been lighting fire. [00:22:38] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:22:39] Speaker A: Instagram and Tick Tock and one that when. Because a lot of people come to me being with Raise Rowdy and doing what I do and saying, who are the guys or girls that are coming up next? And that is one of the first songs that I. So that I show people is the video of Colt with the phone just facing Adam, just playing It's Gonna Rain. [00:22:57] Speaker B: He killed it. [00:22:58] Speaker A: Just a magical. Like, just such a great song. [00:23:02] Speaker B: Oh, and you know what? Colton, as these young. And I love this, you know, Coton is these young guys, they're full of, you know, love for this and energy. And, you know, when these guys come in, they're ready to go, you know? And so Colton comes in with his guitar and sits down on the couch and he starts playing that melody and spit out that first line. And when he did, I was just like, you know, good grief. Let me grab a notebook. We're gonna have to get to work on this. It's, you know, so talented. [00:23:31] Speaker A: Yeah. So you still write with the notebook? Has your process changed over the years, or are you still just staying true? Going with what? You know? [00:23:39] Speaker B: Yeah, I. I've tried the. The computer. You know, I can type. [00:23:44] Speaker A: Yeah. Oh, yeah. [00:23:47] Speaker B: But no, I mean, I can type, but. Yeah, But I found something. When I was writing on a computer and just typing stuff out, I caught myself making mistakes, like, at a finished product. And so I. I learned something from that because there's something about a pen to paper that I catch my mistakes when I'm. When I'm making myself write it out, I'll catch mistakes that I won't catch when I'm using a typewriter. I don't know. [00:24:16] Speaker A: Yeah. Interesting. That's cool. And when did. I mean, it's. How does it feel? Just, like, from coming up and having those wild days in the 90s, which we'll. We'll get into some of that here in a little bit. [00:24:28] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:24:29] Speaker A: But now to be that mentoring Figure. Because, I mean, when. When I talk to Colton or Kenny or even Jake, they say that they wouldn't be where they're at without knowing you in the influence that you. And the influence that you've had on them and on their careers and on especially guys so early on. I mean, you met Jake when he was playing six people back in the day. Like, you take them under the wing, it seems like the ultimate full 360 give back. Like the paying it forward to the next generation almost 30 years later. [00:24:59] Speaker B: Sure. And I love that. And thank goodness that these guys are showing up that week that they want to learn and they want to, you know, think I'm so thankful for that, that they love country music. You know, I wouldn't have had the career I had if people hadn't taken time to teach me because I didn't come here a very good songwriter. I came here and got some, you know, and got. And was lucky enough to get in the room with legend songwriters and I worked my tail to learn it, you know, so these kids that have the same passion that I, I did and I love. It's the greatest feeling in the world to give back and to keep what, you know, keep country music alive. Real. Real country music, you know. Yeah. [00:25:34] Speaker A: Yeah, man. What is it about what. What do you think it is that makes a great songwriter? [00:25:39] Speaker B: The truth. [00:25:39] Speaker A: What are the. [00:25:40] Speaker B: Oh, yeah. [00:25:41] Speaker A: Characteristics. [00:25:42] Speaker B: Well, I'll tell you something. Yeah. What makes a good. What makes a great songwriter? To me, I mean, first of all, you gotta, you know, you have to do your work and learn the craft, you know, and if God blesses you with those melodies, I mean, that's. They don't come from me. They, you know, we just kind of catch them, those special melodies. And then if you learn the craft of lyric writing, that makes a great songwriter. But what makes a really great songwriter is not making stuff up. You know, there's got to be some truth. You know, songwriting is a craft and you have to build. Build a lyric. But to me, if there's not an element of truth in that song somewhere, you might as well just chunk it. Because if. If it's not real to me, how am I going to make it real to somebody else? How somebody going to believe it if I'm just making it up, you know, if it's a scenario that I've just thought up in my head, but if I've lived it and this kind of goes hand in hand with what you asked while ago about, you know, about these young guys and teaching or you know what I love to do most is tell them every mistake I ever made to keep them from making them. Because, I mean, it is a business and all of us come here not really understanding that it is the music business. Without the business, there's no music. Right. So to keep them from making little mistakes, which these kids are smarter than I was. I mean, a lot of them are. They're not making the same mistakes I did, but. But I still tell them anyway. [00:27:10] Speaker A: Yeah. What do you think are some of the mistakes that a young songwriter makes or a young artist? [00:27:15] Speaker B: Well, there's a whole. There's a whole bunch of them, buddy. I don't know. I hate to speak on their behalf because I'm not seeing a lot of mistakes for them on their part. [00:27:25] Speaker A: You're. You're a guy that's seen it, seen it all though, and been in town so long. Like just what are some things that people do get caught up in? Like you talked about signing the record deal two months into being. [00:27:35] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:27:36] Speaker A: And maybe you weren't ready for that as an artist, but it led you to an incredible, blessed writing career. You know. [00:27:42] Speaker B: That's right. I don't know mistakes. I mean, a guy can get caught up in the wrong kind of stuff. God just needs to. Guys and girls need to just concentrate on their career and their music, you know, not get caught up in too much of a wildlife, you know. Yeah. You know, just take care of business. [00:27:59] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, it's. Because it seems like so much of it is. Is the hang and you're getting to do stuff with your friends and for you, that was on the bus, on that seven, seven year bus ride you ended up with Mark, you know, but it's so much of it is writing with the folks that you meet at Losers or at Tootsies or at Red Door or any of the bars here. What was that scene like? Of like when you were. When you come out here in the 90s, what was the bar scene like? Like, where did people hang out or were you not. [00:28:29] Speaker B: I never got involved in it. Really? No. I went right to work on Music Road and I never got off of it. I didn't hang around any, you know, I wasn't at the bar, I wasn't down here playing. You know, in that time, those. All those places wasn't down here. And that's a little bit of a trap. It's a little bit of a trap in my eyes. Because if, you know, if you're going to be successful in the music business, concentrate on being on Music Row or somewhere with great writers that's better than yourself. Way better. If you're young, go learn and make it a business. Be it. You know, it's just like a job. Be at the office every morning. For me, back in the 90s, it was 9am when I was in town and I wasn't on the road. You know, it's. It's a business. So instead of going out and bouncing around all over here, you know, if you find a place to write songs. Yeah. [00:29:21] Speaker A: What was the. What were some of the. The challenges of learning to write songs on the road versus writing them on Music Row or at somebody's house? [00:29:30] Speaker B: You know, riding on the road with Chestnut was. It was never. It was never easy, but we always found time to make time to do it. Because you're so busy out there. When I talk about. People think, well, you was out there on the road for. All the way through the 90s. You must have had all this fun and, you know, you've done this and done this and done that. You know, it was a. It was a bus ride every day. You know, it was the same routine. You'd go in and play a show, get on the bus. And, you know, me and Mark, thank goodness we're on a private coach, so it was just me and him and a driver. So we would get on a bus after a show and. And crack a beer and turn on some hag and. Or Hank or Jones or somebody, listen to some music for a while, maybe for an hour or two while the bus is rolling, and then pull out a guitar, start something. And, you know, we might not. We might finish a song a week out there, you know, but we were on the road a lot. [00:30:22] Speaker A: Do you remember some of your favorite places that you got to go back then? Like some of those honky tonks or theaters. Did it ever get to, like, arena level? Like, it was always arenas. [00:30:32] Speaker B: Oh, when I got on the road with Mark, it was all arenas. No. No clubs, you know, so we were just playing arenas all the. Or he was. You know, so. Yeah. No. No bars, really. [00:30:42] Speaker A: Was there one city in particular where you were very excited to go there? Did it all kind of blend together? Because the arenas are. When people don't know this, when you tour arenas, it's a lot of the same kind of stuff. Or it's. The backstage setup is kind of the same. It's. There's not as much character as when you go into those clubs and honky tonks like the Tumbleweed and Stillwater. Coyote Joe's in Charlotte, you know. [00:31:04] Speaker B: Yeah. You know, I really never saw. It was kind of a blur, you know. I mean, it was just. It's a fast. It was a fact. We were just busy, but not a lot of time to fiddle around, you know, we were just. It was just business and we were working. I did ride the bus. There's another guy I rode the bus with before I got on the bus with Mark. I rode the bus with Vern Gosling for a year. [00:31:24] Speaker A: Oh, what was. [00:31:25] Speaker B: And that. That was incredible. [00:31:27] Speaker A: Yeah. What was that like? Vern is. Vern, I hear, is one of the best to ever do it just as a. Just as a human. And he's a. He's a songwriter. Songwriter and a country artist. Favorite country artist. [00:31:38] Speaker B: Oh, he was incredible. I love Vern and I miss him. I'll tell you. One time I was writing with Vern. Yo. And he sang this, you know, it was Vern the voice, you know, he sang just as good in the room as he did on the record, if not better. And Vernon and I was writing a song. I was. I was young, you know, and he was sitting real close to me. About mirrored a year from me. And we got. We got through writing this song, and Vern said, son, sing that second verse for me. We'd just written it, you know, I picked up my guitar and he's just. He's been leaned over into me, looking at me the whole time I'm singing it. Just that little short verse. [00:32:15] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:32:16] Speaker B: As soon as I got done, he smiled at me and he said, son, you got one of them old thin voices like Dame Dylan. He said, we both laughed. [00:32:27] Speaker A: Yeah, that's awesome. So you talk about, like, guys like Vern and some of those OGs, and coming up in such a special time of when country music, like, when did you see it? Where country music really went to that next level? Like, when did you see it go from being something that was small town to big city? Do you remember that time you talking about. [00:32:49] Speaker B: You're talking about as far as a music sound or just the explosion of. [00:32:53] Speaker A: It to where it was big in culture. And, like, you had places like New York City and Los Angeles, like, just yearning for it, you know. [00:33:03] Speaker B: Oh, well, through the 90s. I mean, when I got here in the 90s, I mean, it just boomed, you know, until it was. I don't know, maybe the time I started seeing it was 93, 94. It was all. It was in full swing, you know, and people were playing places they never thought they'd Play, you know, and big. You know, it's College Sims. It was amazing. [00:33:21] Speaker A: Yeah, that's wild. What did you grow up listening to in Oklahoma? Merle Haggard. [00:33:26] Speaker B: Yeah. [00:33:27] Speaker A: The Hag. [00:33:27] Speaker B: Was your guy Die Hard? Yes, I was Die Hard fan. And I. Merle was one of the. He was talking about somebody who could write a song. He was a. Such a prolific and incredible songwriter. And he, you know, I studied his lyric writing like the good book because he, you know, he's learned from the same. You know, he learned from people like Hank Cochran and all the ones before him. He learned from the same kind of people that I did and Dean Dillon. Same thing he learned from Hank and all these other people, you know, they passed it on to those guys, you know, And Merle was one of those guys that was just a brilliant lyricist, you know, just simplicity. Yeah. [00:34:05] Speaker A: Do you ever get to cross paths with him? [00:34:07] Speaker B: Oh, yeah, yeah. He cut a. He sung a duet with me on that giant record deal, me and Joe Manuel. [00:34:13] Speaker A: Oh, wow. [00:34:14] Speaker B: Yeah. It was a song I had written called We Owe Them More Than that was a song about, you know, about them not being on the radio no more like, you know, just there was a time in the. Through the 90s when it became politically correct on Music Road to be a Haggard fan. And I'd walk in the offices of. Of a song plugger or two that. That. That I knew they weren't really Merle fans, you know, and they would have all this Merle memorabilia on their wall, and they probably couldn't sing you four Merle song. And it kind of offended me, you know, like, what are you doing now? It's cool to be a Merle fan, and you're putting all this stuff on your wall. So I wrote this song. I got convicted about it, and I wrote this song called We Owe More Than That. Like, you know, hey, we don't just need to sing their praises. They need to play them on the radio. Yeah, it was my thought at the time, you know, and so I wrote that song. And because of Joe Manuel, he. He got Merle to come in and sing on that. [00:35:09] Speaker A: How big of a moment was that? [00:35:10] Speaker B: Oh, incredible. That was my hero. [00:35:12] Speaker A: To get. To have your hero sing on a song you wrote about people. [00:35:18] Speaker B: Incredible feeling fake. [00:35:20] Speaker A: Like people like, in a way, like pretending to be big fans because that song's about him. [00:35:26] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. [00:35:27] Speaker A: And about people making it politically correct. [00:35:30] Speaker B: That's right. [00:35:30] Speaker A: Jumping on the. Jumping on that bandwagon without knowing the songs. Like, what was it like being in the studio? [00:35:37] Speaker B: Incredible. Yeah. So those and I, you know, over the years, like I've had like Ray Price. I have my last. Ray Prices last album. Those were, you know, all those guys, Kenny Rogers, Gene Watson, you know, Bobby Bear. I got to, you know, right with Bobby and you know, those were all the guys I grew up on, you know, and so pretty cool. I love Bobby. Yeah. [00:35:58] Speaker A: What are the. What do you have any goals that you haven't been able to attain in your. Your over 35 years of doing this? Like, is there any like what keeps you going and keeps you hungry to keep chasing these songs? [00:36:11] Speaker B: You know what, when you're born to do this, I don't think there is no other. I'm a lifer, you know. [00:36:16] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:36:16] Speaker B: This is what I was born to do. You know, there's always new goals. You know, there's always new things. Chuck Ainley, I mean this is something I never even dreamed I would get to. Chuck Angley and I produced a project on Will Bannister together was the first time I'd get to work with Chuck in a production setting. And then Chuck and I just produced this co produced this Colton Dawson record which was so much fun and the songs are great. And so that's new grounds, you know, for me. And excited. You know, I never thought I'd get to do that, but excited to do that. I love the studio. [00:36:54] Speaker A: Yeah, it's. And it's like, like we talked about earlier with the, with the giving back and paying forward and passing the tradition. I mean, that's like. Zach Topp doesn't write. He writes with a handful of guys that are. That are young, but mostly guys from your generation. And it seems like that's the formula for guys like Jake and guys like Colton and guys like Will and Kenny and there's so many others that are starting to come into this fold. But what's that like? Like just getting it. Because was it. Was there a situation where it was like that back in the 90s or 2000s, like was Tim McGraw getting looked at by guys from the 70s and 80s? Like, I feel like this is a new thing to where they're going back to the older generation. [00:37:39] Speaker B: Well, here's what, here's the deal where, you know, for these guys to learn for these guys, I mean when Tim McGraw. That the area that you're talking about there, when Tim McGraw showed up on the scene, this town was full of young and older, middle aged country songwriters that wrote traditional country music. The whole town was full of it. But these young guys that are coming today that's not the case anymore. I mean, the guys like me, you know, that was here throughout the 90s, they've either quit or they passed away or they're doing something else. You know, it's just like. It's. When it. When it left, they weren't going to write this new stuff. And so the young guys today showing up are finding guys like. Like myself who were here through that, who they can sit down and write songs with, you know, and maybe learn a few pointers here or there that we can point them in. Okay, let's do it this way or that. So I think, you know, I don't know. Back in the 90s, they were the Tim McGraw and were probably finding great songwriters in their 30s. And overlooking the guys that were my age back then, like, they were already kind of, like, gone and out. Yeah. But now the age thing, you know, where else are going to find it? Yeah. You know. Yeah. [00:38:52] Speaker A: I mean, it makes sense. And God bless guys like you for sticking around who are. [00:38:55] Speaker B: Who. [00:38:56] Speaker A: Do you still have some buddies from your class of back in the 90s that are still sticking around here? [00:39:01] Speaker B: You know what? A few, like Monty Holmes is still. Still around and writing. You know, we wrote Troubadour. Great, great songwriter. The country writer Tim Menzies is still writing some and. But, you know, like, a lot of my, you know, Tim Johnson, one of my great songwriters, he's passed. Harley Allen was one of my guys. He's passed. Like, a lot of my guys have passed or moved, you know. Yeah. [00:39:27] Speaker A: So what's it like for you, being part of a. The last of a dying breed that's continuing to go. It's almost like if you're a fan of Star wars and you look at, like, the Jedi, and it's like the 90s, country was like, you guys were doing all this thing, but now there's like. Like a few of y' all left, and there's this resurgence of these kids that are followers. They're followers, they're believers. They're continuing that tradition, man. It's. It's the. The gospel of solid country gold. [00:39:54] Speaker B: Right. [00:39:54] Speaker A: Coming back. [00:39:55] Speaker B: I love it. I mean, here's the truth, man. I. I didn't. I. I had wandered all these years. I. I didn't know if I'd lived to see it come back. You know, that was kind of a thing that I spoke to my maker about, you know, was like, I. I just want to live long enough, see it come back, you know, don't let me go out like this. So when it Started coming back. I'm really excited about it. I mean, I get up every morning now like it's 1992 again, ready to go to write song. [00:40:20] Speaker A: So funny how that works to where it's. You have this energy that you haven't had in years and you're back living in Tennessee and you're working on records and you're excited for releases and the new music that's coming out. [00:40:32] Speaker B: I love it. I have two passions and I was doing. My other passion through some of this time of the 2000s here was driving. I was running a D8 dozer. I love riding the dozer more than anything. Anything to do with that. Ranch work and timber or building ponds. Yeah, like that. I've spent a lot of hours on that through the last 20 years. [00:40:52] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you still get out to Oklahoma Quite a bit. Do you still have your place? [00:40:56] Speaker B: Oh, now hardly ever get. I don't get out there much anymore. We're so busy work with now. You know, it's like working all the time. We just had the first break I've really had. This is the longest. I've been off for about a couple of weeks now or three. The longest time I've had off in three years. [00:41:13] Speaker A: It's just right. [00:41:14] Speaker B: Of writing, riding. Yeah. Just like keep your head down and get the pencil out. [00:41:19] Speaker A: Have you been able to go on the road with Jake or Colton or any of those guys? Have you kind of retired from wanting to go out on the road? [00:41:26] Speaker B: It's a. I'm going to end up doing it. I don't know. Yeah, I will. But. [00:41:30] Speaker A: But haven't yet because I. I could see that. That's. That to me is going to be the most full circle thing is when you're with a Colton Dawson or a Will or a Kenny or Jake and they're playing one of those arenas that you went to years ago with Mark Chester. [00:41:46] Speaker B: Crazy. Yeah. It's pretty come full circle. Yeah, I missed, you know, when I got off the road with Mark, I, I, I missed the road, you know, for. For about a year. I mean, I. [00:41:57] Speaker A: You get used to doing it. I got. I was blessed to be a tour manager for about spent a lot of time whether it was in a van and the good days, it was in a bus. But where you. You have that routine of. Of being gone and you're used to doing it. So that. That re acclimation to getting off the road. [00:42:14] Speaker B: Right, right. You know? Yeah, I know when I got off the road, I mean I was happy and sad at the Same time, you know, I missed Mark and miss being out there on that. But after about a year, I got over it. You know, it's like, yeah, I'm glad I'm not on the bus anymore, but. But I've got me excited about getting on, taking it a few rides, you know, and these boys today, they're not out there, you know, for the weeks at a time like we were, you know, we were gone. Yeah. [00:42:37] Speaker A: Because radio tours, completely different. [00:42:39] Speaker B: Right. [00:42:40] Speaker A: And playing those radio shows and having to go to a record store when the album's coming out or this or that. It's a whole, the whole promotion and the whole thing. I mean, you've, you've survived through the streaming era of where it's, it's. It's great because we can. As a music consumer, we have. Everything's at our fingertips. It's not just what's being played on WSM or on any of the radio stations or on CMT or any of that stuff. It's. We can get to all of it. And social media has been huge for the guys that, that you've been able to work with recently. But I mean, I feel like I would have loved to have come up. I mean, I was born 95, so I, I missed. Yeah, I missed a lot of. A lot of that era. I was a young guy, but I remember listening to those songs on the radio and going to Walmart or Tower Records or one of those places and getting a CD and just being something special about breaking open that, that Kenny Chesney, no shoes, no shirt, no problems and going from front to back on it. [00:43:37] Speaker B: Right. [00:43:37] Speaker A: You know, like there was something special about the records era. [00:43:41] Speaker B: That's right. Sure. I mean, something you can hold in your hand, you can read the jacket and there ain't. You know, I'm loving now seeing these guys making vinyl records again. You know, nothing sounds better than a, Than a vinyl record when you drop a needle on a country song. [00:43:54] Speaker A: Yeah. Who would be on your Mount Rushmore of 90s country artists? [00:43:58] Speaker B: Of 90s country art. [00:43:59] Speaker A: 90S country artists. [00:44:01] Speaker B: George, Straight George. I mean, hey, even George is 81. Kind of come up that. But I mean, you know, it was relevant all the way through the 90s. I mean, straight was the guy, you know, and like 30, diffie and chestnut. I mean, all these guys, you know, were they just my country music? Yeah. [00:44:17] Speaker A: What was a song that you had on hold with somebody that didn't get cut that you wish did? [00:44:22] Speaker B: I've had a few. Hold on. I had one. I'VE only had one George Drake cut. It was on the Blue Clear sky album, which I was. That just like, made my whole life. Yeah. [00:44:31] Speaker A: One of the best records to be a part of. [00:44:33] Speaker B: And so what a great record to be on. I've had a few George straight holds that didn't make it. That was kind of paints me a little bit like, oh, you know, didn't work. I don't know. I've had, you know, you learn how to grow some thicker skin real quick in the music business because you can get your hopes up and get let down a lot, you know, but if you go through that enough, you kind of get a little bit tougher, like, yes, okay, well, it'll get on another record. But I've had, you know, everybody has that. Yeah, I've had songs cut. You know, you get back in the 90s, you know, you get a song cut and you get to call you. You made the. Or you got. You got a cut. And then a couple of weeks later you get the calls like, didn't make the record. You know, those. Those are. [00:45:11] Speaker A: Gotta hope for a deluxe. [00:45:13] Speaker B: So, you know what? My rules. My rules as a songwriter is this. I know I got a hold when they call me and tell me they cut it. I know I got a cut when I can go to the store. This now is back. This is a natty say, I know I got a cut when I go to the store and buy it. That, and I know I got a single when I can turn on the radio and hear it. If you live by those rules, you won't be disappointed as much. [00:45:36] Speaker A: It's wild, man. That's a whole. Whole different. Whole different era. What do you like doing when you're. I know you said you enjoy getting out there in the dozer and. And doing all that stuff, but what do you like doing when you're not writing songs? [00:45:49] Speaker B: You know what? I'm never not writing songs no more. So, I mean, we just. Now, I don't know. I mean, now I'm just kind of. I'm loving this so much. I mean, I. I got my focus on this so much, you know, I don't want to do anything else. Like, I'll forego the deer hunting, the dozer work. I just want to write songs with these young guys while every moment that I have left, because, I mean, you know, I'm. I'm getting kind of at the, you know, close to the end of the tape measure here. So I just want to write. I want to. I want to finish the race yeah. [00:46:17] Speaker A: Are you still on a publishing deal? Currently. [00:46:20] Speaker B: Dana and I have our own publishing company together. [00:46:22] Speaker A: Oh, nice. [00:46:23] Speaker B: And so we started that, like, three years ago, and so we. We have our own publishing company. We have a production company where we're shooting some videos for. We did a couple on Wheel Banister that was phenomenal. They're both on CMT now, so we got our hands, you know, in a little bit of different stuff, and we're just having a. Having a ball doing it. [00:46:44] Speaker A: Yeah. What led you to wanting to get into that side of the. That side of the business? [00:46:49] Speaker B: Well, a few reasons. Mainly because I'm old and set my ways and like to do things my way, and I don't like no one telling me what to do. Yeah. I want to write songs the way I want to write songs. I want to do it where it makes the most sense to me. You know, if you got somebody pressuring you to do it this way, do it this way. You got a time limit. Got to write three times a day, and I'm not really into that no more. Yeah, I did my time. [00:47:13] Speaker A: Yeah. Do you have a favorite song from the. Jake Worthington, that. That last record that he put out? [00:47:20] Speaker B: The last record. [00:47:21] Speaker A: The last record out. This new one. [00:47:26] Speaker B: He's. Yeah, I think Jack's recorded 18 of the songs on the. Both albums that we've written. One of my favorite things, It Ain't the Whiskeys. Fun song. Yeah. And I tell you how that song. I'll tell you how that song. [00:47:38] Speaker A: Yeah, tell me the story of that. [00:47:39] Speaker B: One, how that came about. So Jake wasn't in the writing room, and Will Banister and Jeff Hyde, we were writing for Wheels Race. We wasn't writing something for Jack's project, and we got this song. I had the. I had the title, and I brought it into the room that morning. We started writing it, and we wrote the first verse and most of the chorus or maybe even all of the chorus. And I. I told Jeff and. And Will, I said, you know what, guys? I said, this sounds like this could be a great song for Jake Worthington. I said, y' all mind if we call him on the phone and. [00:48:14] Speaker A: And. [00:48:15] Speaker B: And just let him write it a little bit? Let's finish this second verse with him. And both of them said, oh, yeah. Yeah, let's do it. So I got Jake on the phone out in Oklahoma and said, hey, we got this song half done. You want to jump on the second verse with us and write it and play it for him? He said, yeah, I want to get on that. And so, you know, and Jake had a liner. I think he had one line in that second verse. So he contributed some, you know, and he sung the crap out of it. [00:48:40] Speaker A: Yeah, yeah. And then as far as this, this Colton project that's coming out, the buzz that that kid has had without having anything out right. Is unbelievable. It's something that can only really happen in this era with social media and people are. Are following him and just been. Been so hungry for it. How many songs have you guys cut? [00:49:03] Speaker B: We've cut a whole record. We cut 12 songs. He and I and others. Jeff Hyde, Kenny Whitmire Bail Franz, Imani Holmes. We all, we. We've all got songs on record. I Co wrote 11 of the 12 with Colton and we had a ball doing it. And Colton, so, so talented. I mean he's, he's just for his age to come in and he's so smart. I mean he's really an intelligent, good kid too. I mean just a stand up guy, you know. I mean he's so deserving. [00:49:36] Speaker A: He's the nice. This kid I remember because we get him. We've had him play a number of our events. We've been very fortunate to have. Have a great friendship and great brotherhood with him. And he's funny. He's. He's always like, man, I gotta wear these X's on my hands because I'm so young. He's like, how am I gonna. He's like, he's like, man, I'm so scared talking to girls. I'm like, Colton, you keep doing what you're doing and those girls will be coming. Little man, dude. And it's just, he's, it's, it's so cool. And I can't wait for that project to come out. [00:50:07] Speaker B: I'm excited about it. It's sounding good. We've been getting the mixes back and going. Chuck's working. We're mixing it right now. So Colton and I are going tomorrow. We've been hearing them. It's killer, man. Yeah. So. Well, we had the best band. You know, we. And we had the A team play the record. And you know Brent Mason, you know Paul Franklin, Larry Franklin, Eddie Bears. Who. Yeah. Glenn Wharf and all. You know all those guys. [00:50:35] Speaker A: All the legends. [00:50:35] Speaker B: All the legends. Yes. [00:50:36] Speaker A: That know how to make guys that I'm sure you have played on songs that you've written before many years. [00:50:42] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's fun. I mean I love the studio is one of my favorite days. I mean I've been working with these guys for 35 years. [00:50:49] Speaker A: Where's the. Where do you. What studio do you guys. [00:50:51] Speaker B: We went to the Castle and it turned out great, man. [00:50:54] Speaker A: That's awesome. [00:50:55] Speaker B: So excited. It's gonna be a great country record. Everybody's really excited about it. [00:50:59] Speaker A: Also, where's the Castle at that? [00:51:00] Speaker B: It's out between Franklin and. And Green Hills. [00:51:05] Speaker A: Okay. It's a little bit easier for you to get to from. What is it not. What's so nice about living south of town where you're at? Traffic, in a way. The traffic. [00:51:14] Speaker B: I don't have no traffic out there. You know, a traffic jam at Lewisburg is, you know, five cars in front of you. [00:51:22] Speaker A: That's awesome, man. That's awesome. If you were to tell a young songwriter, a freshman, fresh. Fresh out of. Fresh out of. Out of small town Oklahoma or small town tech or whatever, what. What advice would you give to that young wide eyed kid? Because how old were you when you moved out? [00:51:39] Speaker B: I was 28. Yeah. [00:51:40] Speaker A: What would you tell that young, late 20s kid looking to do something in this business knowing what, you know now, 35 years in. [00:51:48] Speaker B: You know what? Fine. Like I said, my best advice I can get to young songwriters is fine guys who, who have had success and that know what they're doing, get in a room with them and learn. Learn the craft of songwriting. And you know, we all came here. I mean, anybody who has enough confidence to move to Nashville really has too much confidence. Because if you have, if you, if you think, well, I'm good enough, I can get down here. I mean, I was one of those guys, right? I got down here, I'm writing songs, I can go down there and take over this joint, right? [00:52:18] Speaker A: Yeah. [00:52:19] Speaker B: Well, that ain't the way that it is. It didn't take me long to get here and realize my song sucks when I got here, you know, and I had to get in the room with leg. I mean, just guys that knew how to write country songs and, and learn. So you know what you. It is, you get in out of it, what you put into it. So I didn't know nothing but work my whole life. So, you know, writing songs a lot easier than skinning hogs. Yeah. And I just, you know, you just got to go to work. It's like digging ditches. You got to get in there and get it, you know, and learn and it's a long process. You can't. I've seen, I've seen guys come here and write for a few months and, and with the other guys and go, you know, I got this I can do this. Well, they don't. It took me four years to really kind of wrap my mind around. Around it, so. Yeah. [00:53:05] Speaker A: And now, 35 years later, you're getting to develop accents, right, Still? [00:53:08] Speaker B: I'm still learning, man. [00:53:09] Speaker A: You're learning, but. But through a different facet, man, you're getting to. You get. You've gotten to experience the business from all sides, and now you're in that mentor role with. With guys that are coming up and 2026 is going to be a lot of fun. I cannot wait for this new music to come out. Do you have anybody else on the younger side that you're excited about or you kind of keeping it to the small group that you develop? [00:53:32] Speaker B: Right now I keep a real small group, and I'm, you know, hopefully, you know, there'll be some others coming along, you know, but I'm very selective. I. I work with very few people. Just because you can't. You can't work with everybody, you know, But. But when I hear somebody that excites me, gives me chills. You know, I hear a voice or something about them that says, okay, I. You know, I'm in. Then I get involved. And when I get involved, I don't, you know, I hate the system that just run them through, run them through, run them through, run them through. When I'm very selective on who I pick, but ever who I pick, I stick with them forever. Yeah. [00:54:04] Speaker A: You know, what is it that you look for? Can you tell right from that first note when they start singing or when they start playing? [00:54:10] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I know within five. Well, somebody sits down with me. I know within three minutes whether I'm. If that's. Or if I hear them, you know, I don't know. I don't know how. I can't really explain it, but, you know, I have to hear something that I connect with. Yeah. If it tells me that they got it, you know, if they. That they're going to be able to do it. [00:54:29] Speaker A: Yeah. That's awesome, man. It was a real pleasure. Absolute pleasure. Thank you so much for all that you've done for the world of country music and all that you're doing, Continuing to do. Seriously, we. We really appreciate it, and it was an honor having you on here and having you play that night at the local with Colton. I'd love to try to set that up again. I know. I know we have. We. I know it's. It's not every day we can get you all the way up here to the big city, but seriously, thank you so much and very excited for all this stuff coming out. 2026, man. And y' all be sure to listen to some. Get on the lookout for the new Colton Dawson project that's coming out. Check out the will Bannister stuff, the Jake Worthington stuff and be on the lookout for all the new music that is coming. All the Roger Springer songs are going to be getting cut in the future and are in the works for coming out. I cannot wait for this Colton Dawson record. [00:55:22] Speaker B: I'm excited. [00:55:23] Speaker A: I haven't been this excited for a debut project in a long, long time. [00:55:28] Speaker B: It's killer, man. [00:55:29] Speaker A: Oh, dude, I'm gonna have to have you put me in some demo jail when we get off of here. But yeah, shout out to our friends from surfside. No bubbles, no troubles. Vodka, iced tea, vodka, lemonade. Go check them out at a liquor store near you. And for more on us, visit RazorAudi.com for my man Roger Springer, I'm Matt brill. This has been outside the round. [00:55:49] Speaker B: I never been the kind for stay one place for too long I never been the best at sin I love you to a girl I love only got a couple tricks up my sleeve they usually just them leave so if you know me if you really know me you know I'm just a two trick pony but maybe the drink and the lack of money for show I'm just a two trick on it yeah.